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Timing Chain Change


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#1 mini_si

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Posted 20 April 2010 - 09:54 AM

Im going to be changing my timing chain this weekend as it's getting scarily noisey when running. The engine is a 1098cc engine from the old clubmans. Before i remove everything to find the timing chain tensioner has had it (Knowing my luck anyway) i want to get a new one and will just change it anyway. So ive just been looking on the minispares website and found these:

http://www.minispare...=...2898&title=
http://www.minispare...=...5368&title=

Are these the right bits for me to use or if not can someone point me in the right direction as to what parts i will need.

Cheers

Si

#2 Guess-Works.com

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Posted 20 April 2010 - 09:56 AM

Being a 1098, are you sure it actually has a chain tensioner... Very few A+ 1098's were produced and if it's an A series it wont have one...

#3 mini_si

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Posted 20 April 2010 - 10:04 AM

I havent actually checked it myself but was told there would be one in there, I take it this is wrong then???

#4 Cooperman

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Posted 20 April 2010 - 10:07 AM

Look at the timing chain cover. if it is a regular oval shape it hasn't got a tensioner. If it has a bulge in one side then it has.
Without a tensioner you have 2 options:
Re-fit a simplex (that's a single) chain with new rubber tensioner rings, or,
Fit a duplex chain and sprocket like the old Cooper 'S' had.
If it has a tensioner you can fit a duplex set-up without a tensioner. Don't fit a tensioner to a duplex chain or the tensioner may break.
IMHO those tensioners are a right pain on a high-revving engine, but more-or-less OK for up to 5500 rpm sustained.

Edited by Cooperman, 20 April 2010 - 10:07 AM.


#5 Yoda

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Posted 20 April 2010 - 10:09 AM

Sorry if i misled you Si, I meant that if you have one, it will be removed to fit the Duplex kit. The only thing we need to confirm is whether we need a modified bolt in the back plate to clear the new chain and sprocket. If so, what type and size bolt do we need? I completely forgot that some of the earlier engines have no tensioner.

My Bad.

#6 Yoda

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Posted 20 April 2010 - 10:11 AM

Also remember Si, I did say you will get some noise from the new duplex kit, but not as bad as it is Now :mrcool:

Edited by customcart, 20 April 2010 - 10:12 AM.


#7 mini_si

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Posted 20 April 2010 - 10:17 AM

Well it is bad now so anything is better lol. Just looking at a duplex kit now so may just go for that.

#8 Cooperman

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Posted 20 April 2010 - 10:17 AM

To fit a duplex you need to ountersing the 2 bolt holes in the engine end plate under where the sproket goes. Then you fit 2 off 1/4" UNF countersunk x 1/2" long screws (install using Loctite).
If it's an A+ timing chain cover you need to grind out the flange inside the cover and tap out the little detent where the cover is shaped in order for the 2-row dhain to clear. Just check the learances before bolting up. It's very easy actually.
If you want to time the cam accurately you need a crank protractor and a dial gauge on a magnetic base plus a set of offset Woodruff keys (from Mini Spares). Set 2 degrees advanced from manufacturer's recommended to allow for initial chain stretch.

#9 Yoda

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Posted 20 April 2010 - 10:21 AM

Hi Cooperman.

I will be helping Si at the weekend, and i recall only having to modify one bolt on mine and the cover went straight on, is this because my block is based on a 1275 rather that a smallblock? I dont want to end up with his car in bits on my driveway and not being able to finish it :P

I never had this prob with my old Cooper S :mrcool:

#10 Guess-Works.com

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Posted 20 April 2010 - 10:23 AM

to be honest on a 1098, I would not bother with a duplex....

#11 mini_si

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Posted 20 April 2010 - 10:24 AM

Hi Cooperman.

I dont want to end up with his car in bits on my driveway and not being able to finish it :mrcool:



I don't want that either :P

#12 Yoda

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Posted 20 April 2010 - 10:29 AM

See Guess-works post. That answers your PM Si, go with a good quality simplex as per Coopermans suggestion and dont forget "always" fit new gaskets and seals :mrcool:

Not like some stat housings i could mention. :P

Edited by customcart, 20 April 2010 - 10:30 AM.


#13 Cooperman

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Posted 20 April 2010 - 10:32 AM

Hi Cooperman.

I will be helping Si at the weekend, and i recall only having to modify one bolt on mine and the cover went straight on, is this because my block is based on a 1275 rather that a smallblock? I dont want to end up with his car in bits on my driveway and not being able to finish it :P

I never had this prob with my old Cooper S :mrcool:


The bolts are not the ones concerned with the cover, they are the ones under the sprocket on the big flat engine plate. If you dont do this, then the wider duplex sprocket grinds against the bolt heads.
I've always done both of those bolt holes. All you need is a countersinking tool. You can use a large drill bit, but the angle is not absolutely correct although you can get away with it if you do the bolt up tight. Bolts with 'alan-key' heads are best, especially if doing the job with the engine in-situ.
To my knowledge, all pre-A+ covers are interhangeable. It's the A+ overs which have the oil thrower flange and the small indentation whih hit the duplex set-up.

Edited by Cooperman, 20 April 2010 - 10:32 AM.


#14 mini_si

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Posted 20 April 2010 - 10:37 AM

That was a new one lol got another one in the garage lol

Anyone got a link to the tensioner rings? as i can't find any?

#15 Yoda

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Posted 20 April 2010 - 10:47 AM

Cooperman,

I must be writing in a misunderstanding way!

I think you took it that i thought that the screws would hold off the cover, I meant only one screw needed modifying for the sprocket as far as i recall and the cover went on with no Mods. I did build the engine out of bits laying around the workshop as i had run out of work and money, so maybe i had fitted an earlier cover or something. I was just robbing parts off old engines I had laying around. That may explain why i had issues with my fan being too close to the timing cover vent that i had to modify. I had to options here, cut and weld the breather or the old fashioned method (hammer) as the engine was already in the car, guess which method i used ?

I will do it properly next time i need to work on the engine :mrcool:

Edited by customcart, 20 April 2010 - 11:00 AM.





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