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12" x 5" Revolutions Scraping arches?


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#1 RacingGreen

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Posted 18 August 2005 - 05:37 PM

Hi,
I just bought a set of revolutions (12"x5") fitted them with no problems, but when i went out and turned the wheels to full lock i got a loud scraping sound.

As i was told that with the 5" wide ones i would not need to made any mods to the body.

Could it just be the case that they are scraping on the standard plastic arches?

If it is just the standard arches, i've got a set of wood and pickett ones that i'm yet to fit, would these cause the same problem?

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks
Mike

#2 Sprocket

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Posted 18 August 2005 - 05:58 PM

Edit: you have disks on the racing green :nugget: Depends what brakes you are running, how much lower is the front intentional or not, what tyres are on the wheels and are the tie rods straight.

If the wheels have offset for front drum brakes and are fitted to disks then they will rub. or if the wheels are of the 'deep dish' type on disks they will rub.

If the Tyres are 165/60x12, they may or may not rub.

If the tie rods are bent, the caster will be wrong and the lower ball joint will be closer to the front

If the car is lower, the wheel is closer to the point where it does rub.

Just a few to start with

#3 RacingGreen

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Posted 18 August 2005 - 07:35 PM

Yeah, i am running on the standard 8.4"disks. The Tyres are 165/60x12. The car hasn't been lowered and is still on the original suspension.

I had a look and noticed that it is only the drivers side wheel that is causing the problem and that the passenger side will miss the wing by about 1/4".

I also noticed while looking that the lowest part of the front panel is rather bent, could the be the problem as it is only catching on one side?

Thanks
Mike

#4 bristolminimad

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Posted 18 August 2005 - 08:42 PM

that's the same wheels i got, i had to trim the arches by 1 inch all the way round (same as the sport packs) the offset is wider than minilights/superlights so you got to get cutting! i was told you didn't have to mod, but you do! did you get them from mws?

#5 Pooky

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Posted 18 August 2005 - 09:02 PM

yeah my 5x12's with 165/60 still rub after i've cut a load of arch away! :lol:

#6 Sprocket

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Posted 18 August 2005 - 10:05 PM

I had a look and noticed that it is only the drivers side wheel that is causing the problem and that the passenger side will miss the wing by about 1/4".

This is a problem with all post 76 minis, i've had three post 76 minis and none have had spot on alignment. Check for a bent tie rod on that side. Also check all the subframe mounts.Check the lower arm bushes and the tie bar bushes. If there is only a little wear in all of these, it all adds up.Rubber bushes and mounts are a maintenance item. In fact don't check, because some times you don't know what you're looking at, or know whether its worn or not, unless you compare with new ones, and if you got the new ones to compare with, then you might as well fit them.

Real easy way to check is to get some one to turn the steering from side to side with the car parked up, while you watch the big tower bolts on the bulkhead in the engine bay. There shouldn't be a mega amount of movement. If there is a mega amount of movement, think about what the subframe is doing when you corner, brake, and accelerate. Handling won't be at its best, may produce torque steer, and pull to one side when breaking. It realy is shockingthe amount it moves :saywhat:

If I were you or you were me then I'd replace the lot( as I am doing) as on a car that age they will be shot to bits, every last one of them. This is my opinion and any one is free to criticise as you are not me and I am not you. :lol: :cheese:

#7 RacingGreen

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Posted 19 August 2005 - 08:41 AM

thanks for all the info guys, i got the revolutions from huddersfield mini spares.

#8 Sprocket

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 12:05 AM

thanks for all the info guys, i got the revolutions from huddersfield mini spares.

HO HO. The guy I bought my mini from said exactly the same. He bought some of the deep dish 12s ( see below) and was told by HMS that no arch mods were required but it was :nugget: Totaly folded inward the bottom edge of the drivers side front wing, the paint cracked, held moisture and is now a rusty patch the size of your hand :nugget: :lol: He fitted the cheap adjustable trumpets at the front to raise the car, but they still rubbed :nugget: Soon as I got the car the awefull wheels were replaced with the genuine sports pack wheels and arches with the wings being cut back by about an inch.

I have carried out the wheel arch mod with the standard arches. The metal needs to be cut back about the bumper line just enough to smooth out the line of the wing. The arch needs the underside area cutting out from the front and back by about 6 inches with a dremel, then there should be no problems. Just make sure you treat any bare metal appropriately.

#9 Dan

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 08:48 AM

If you were using 10" wheels then you could fit a 5" width no problem but with 12" wheels the largest size that can generally fit straight on with no problems is normally 4.5". It's because of the shoulder profile of the lower profile tyres used on 12's being more square. You should be able to get away with 165's on a 4.5" width.

The problem that causes them to rub more on one side than the other is nothing to do with wheel alignment, it's caused by body alignment on Mk4 and later Mini's. If there is too little clearance on one side then you must fit spacing pieces behind the subframe teardrop mounts to pack the front panel out to the correct distance. This was done on the production line but not very precisely and if the mountings or subframe have ever been swapped then it's likely the original packing pieces have been lost. I can't remember the part number for the packing at the moment, I'll get back to you with it when I have more time.

#10 RacingGreen

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 05:26 PM

thanks, that would be great if you could get me the part number, will it be a hard job to do and also, is it advised that i still cut a bit of the wing away after fitting the packing?

Thanks
Mike

#11 RacingGreen

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 06:11 PM

I had a look and i couldn't see any on the car.

Is that what i need by any chance?

Clicky

Is it worth me replacing the tear drop mountings while im there, if so what sort are the best to go for??

Also, can i fit them without having to take the whole subframe out and how many of the packers do i need for the one side?

Thanks Again
Mike

#12 RacingGreen

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 11:03 PM

well i put some spacers in the one side of the subframe as there was none in there at all and it has improved the problem to the wheels are generally fine when im in the car on my own but when i have a passenger they scrape a little (but nothing like as bad as they were). So hopefully i few more spacers on each side should solve the problem without me cutting the wings. :grin:

#13 wobbit

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Posted 22 August 2005 - 01:23 PM

am i guna have this problem fitting 5.5" by 12" alloys on my 91 cooper?

#14 RacingGreen

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Posted 22 August 2005 - 05:23 PM

yes, i think that you definately have to cut the wings to get the 5.5" wide wheels on.

#15 Dan

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Posted 24 August 2005 - 04:27 PM

Well, I've just managed to get back with the part number and it seems you've already found what you need.

To answer your question there is no standard amount of spacers, and some cars were never fitted with any. They are used because Mini shells, being hand built are all a little different. Some cars need none and some need loads. Just make sure that however many you are using you don't distort the front panel so much that it looks bent. I always have a pack of ten or so on hand when changing a front subframe as you never know if you'll need any. I tend to use enough to slightly overfill the gap between the subframe mounting and shell as a starting point, which just slightly pre-stresses the installation (usually 1 or 2 each side). I just don't like the idea of winding in the front panel towards the subframe by doing up the mounts mentally tight. This is probably why teardrop mounts fail in cars so often as the front panel will be constantly pulling the mount apart, I think it's better to have the mount in compression.




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