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Quick To Understeer Then Oversteer, Normal?


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#31 al_reidy

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 04:17 PM

I dont have mine machined yet but the photo below is something like what I am aiming towards for my fix, although moving the steering rack is the best way to combat bump steer it might not be possible for some to do.

As I said in my build diary I am going to use a 1/2" UNF turnbuckle with RH&LH threads (like the one attached to the rose joint in the below picture, I already bought the taps and the 3/4" hex bar to make this), LH thread 1/2" Rose joints.

I think the major difference between the picture below and mine is that I am thinking of tapping 1/2"UNF into the bottom half of the spacer (made from the same 3/4" hex bar) and then taper the top end and thread the spacer (3/8"UNF), similar to the current track rod end. Or I might ream out the steering arm and whack a high tensile 1/2"UNF bolt all the way through the lot, still undecided.......

I am hoping to get the machining done this week/weekend, after which I will post up some pictures and might even do some drawings for people to copy if they want.

Anyhooo, here is a picture I have stolen/borrowed from the 16Vminiclub site:

Posted Image



i know im being really cheeky, but you couldnt get some extra ones done at the same time and i will buy them from you. pretty please with sugar on top.. :D

#32 cptkirk

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 07:21 AM

i know im being really cheeky, but you couldnt get some extra ones done at the same time and i will buy them from you. pretty please with sugar on top.. :D


Hey Al

I am unsure if I have enough hex bar, let me make my set first and see how much hex I have left. The amount of spacer required might be different from mine so can you determine how much of a spacer you would need to bring the arm horizontal and let me know - I would advise on the Cooper S arms as well as they do have a lot more meat to them and their not that expensive.

I am going to see my mate Stevie G tonight to sort the machining out so will be able to get an idea on cost as well for you, I am not looking to make money so it shouldnt be too expensive.

#33 e11evns

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 06:33 PM

i know im being really cheeky, but you couldnt get some extra ones done at the same time and i will buy them from you. pretty please with sugar on top.. :-


Hey Al

I am unsure if I have enough hex bar, let me make my set first and see how much hex I have left. The amount of spacer required might be different from mine so can you determine how much of a spacer you would need to bring the arm horizontal and let me know - I would advise on the Cooper S arms as well as they do have a lot more meat to them and their not that expensive.

I am going to see my mate Stevie G tonight to sort the machining out so will be able to get an idea on cost as well for you, I am not looking to make money so it shouldnt be too expensive.



double rates for mates!! these bump steer ends are expensive to buy, im sure you could flog quite a few id have some if you decided to fab a number of them! it would cover your costs and give you spares?

#34 cptkirk

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 08:04 AM

No promises here - I might look into putting a full kit together which would include Cooper S arms, basically everything required for removing the original track rod ends and the weaker normal steering arms. Leave it with me.

#35 e11evns

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 05:00 PM

No promises here - I might look into putting a full kit together which would include Cooper S arms, basically everything required for removing the original track rod ends and the weaker normal steering arms. Leave it with me.



Top Man!

#36 al_reidy

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 03:43 PM

Posted Image

i found these (in the latest mini world mag)
http://geralddale.co...-sport-products

pricey at 250 (according to the mini world mag)

#37 cptkirk

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 05:27 AM

Had I have seen these earlier I think I might well have gone for a set and then got some longer bolts and spacers to get the track rods straighter, however they are pricey but they do look the dogs danglies.

#38 Custom_Minis

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 05:40 AM

(not having one at hand to check) Don't standard steering arms have a slight bend in them? With regards to the mounting face on the hub and mounting face of the track rod end? These appear straight with no 'drop down'

Edit:

aha! looking at the picture above might have helped first! a couple of posts up ^^^^ standard arms are shaped a lot different.

Edited by Custom_Minis_Ltd, 05 October 2010 - 05:43 AM.


#39 al_reidy

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 05:52 AM

(not having one at hand to check) Don't standard steering arms have a slight bend in them? With regards to the mounting face on the hub and mounting face of the track rod end? These appear straight with no 'drop down'

Edit:

aha! looking at the picture above might have helped first! a couple of posts up ^^^^ standard arms are shaped a lot different.


good find, i might give them a call today if i have time, find out why...

#40 al_reidy

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 02:26 PM

Attached File  IMG_0028.jpg   284.92K   38 downloads
Attached File  IMG_0024.jpg   208.22K   27 downloads

Current steering arm angles :D(

#41 al_reidy

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 07:31 AM

http://www.minitasti...teeringarms.htm

hmmm



Posted Image

#42 cptkirk

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 09:48 AM

Al

unsure if ^^^ have any more drop than regular arms. I havent been able to take a shot of mine now I have the spacers in but I put a 30mm spacer in and looking at yours it will bring the arm down quite a lot.

If the billet arms had the drop in height built in that would be awesome as it would negate alot of fannying around.

#43 al_reidy

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 04:31 PM

Ok, i have been busy.
i have ditched the Gripper diff in favour of the Quaife ATB diff, which improved everything about the car, i cant believe i put up with it for so long!
I replaced the steering rack with a mini spares new item, none of this recon rubbish i was sold before.
looking over all the suspension parts for play etc i found a ball joint about to fall off due to me not using hammering the lock tab. DOH!
however i also noticed that the drop links on both sides of the car are bent! the suspension was setup by Zcars, the links were straight when i put them on the car....
Attached File  IMG_0050.jpg   204.28K   46 downloads
i have no idea....


I measured the bump steer and made a lowered rose-jointed version of the track rod end, which has done wonders for the bump steer, its nearly nothing now.
Attached File  IMG_0042.jpg   212.61K   54 downloads
Attached File  IMG_0051.jpg   215.91K   48 downloads
after tracking back up and going for a spin i found that its still really twitchy at speed (above 60). i have played around with toe in and out on the front but cant get the car to behave at speed.
Steering however now is very good, all that play and crap rack didnt help anything.

any ideas?
please help

Edited by al_reidy, 23 October 2010 - 04:32 PM.


#44 cptkirk

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 09:37 AM

Top work there Al, by the looks of it there was plenty of thread in the Rose joint for the track rod? I was thinking of doing it that way but as I was unsure of the thread depth compared to the std track rod end I went my long winded route, still I can alter the tracking without undoing the track rod end/rose joint so it aint all bad.

Re that rose joint in the top picture, I have a rose joint similar on mine and I am pretty sure it came with that bend/angular offset already in it, although mine is used in the ARB not the suspension as I have the inboard shocks.

Re the twitchy at speed, I think its a combination of small steering wheel, short wheelbase and lots of power that all add up to weird handling. My car is so much better after the new rack but it still wants to wander around especially when you come off the gas at high speed. I am guessing it is something I am going to have to get used to as I cant think of anything else that I can tighten or repalce to help the situation, other than my 60 profiles on the rear.

Any one else suffer from a knocking noise from the rear suspension when going over slower uneven surfaces? I tighten the ******* out of the rose joints on the front of the rear swing arms but it still knocks????

#45 al_reidy

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 11:45 AM

Top work there Al, by the looks of it there was plenty of thread in the Rose joint for the track rod? I was thinking of doing it that way but as I was unsure of the thread depth compared to the std track rod end I went my long winded route, still I can alter the tracking without undoing the track rod end/rose joint so it aint all bad.

Re that rose joint in the top picture, I have a rose joint similar on mine and I am pretty sure it came with that bend/angular offset already in it, although mine is used in the ARB not the suspension as I have the inboard shocks.

Re the twitchy at speed, I think its a combination of small steering wheel, short wheelbase and lots of power that all add up to weird handling. My car is so much better after the new rack but it still wants to wander around especially when you come off the gas at high speed. I am guessing it is something I am going to have to get used to as I cant think of anything else that I can tighten or repalce to help the situation, other than my 60 profiles on the rear.

Any one else suffer from a knocking noise from the rear suspension when going over slower uneven surfaces? I tighten the ******* out of the rose joints on the front of the rear swing arms but it still knocks????



Yeah the track rod end has about 1 and a half cm of thread used each side, i checked and that seems to be fine with the MOT man.
you do realise the arms spin so that you can adjust the tracking without removing the end... i dont see the need to use another adjuster...

yeah i get the knocking noise also. i think its the shocker, i tried jacking the car up and kicking the wheel up and could sometimes get it to knock. its an odd one.

i managed to make 2 track rod replacement kits for 65, so my other mini will be able to benefit also ^_^




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