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Blowing Oil Filter Gasket (twice).


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#1 wtverouden

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 03:01 PM

Hi all,

Anyone ever had the problem of blowing the oil filter gasket out? First time it happened was after the video we shot at the factory. We fitted a new filter, filled up the system, bled it and warmed the engine up. Dyno'd it, did some harsh runs with it and all was well. Pressure, temperature -> perfect. Loaded up the car back to holland. Started the engine to unload it from the trailer and there it was, an oil ocean.

Checked it on the bridge, cleaned everything up and saw that the filter was a little loose and the gasket was a little misformed outwards. So my thought was, the filter must have come off after cooling down. Alright no worries there, put it all back together. Genuine parts and the right momentum for the filter, greased up the seal with oil as well. Checked it again, warmed it up, did some testruns with it and all went well. Started the engine a couple of times the following days, drove it an worked on it. Nothing wrong there, untill last morning. Got in the car, started the engine (without the bulkhead in) and it wouldn't look bad right next the Bellagio Fountains in Vegas.

That's the second time right now. Anyone experienced anything like this (blowing the oil filter seal)? If so, your help is appreciated. The only thing i can think of is a (sometimes) non-working oil pressure relieve valve.

Will upload a picture of what this looks like tomorrow.

Thnx guys

#2 AllanMcD

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 03:41 PM

The only time I have seen this happen was when the o ring from the old filter was still stuck to the block.
I broke my leg because of this many years ago on (off) a bike.
Allan

Edited by AllanMcD, 07 April 2010 - 03:42 PM.


#3 wtverouden

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 08:25 PM

The only time I have seen this happen was when the o ring from the old filter was still stuck to the block.
I broke my leg because of this many years ago on (off) a bike.
Allan



Hi Allen,

thnx for the reply, checked it the first time, it came of with the old oil ring. The engine did only 1000 miles, it's as new. Can't figure it out. It didn't run for like 4 years, could the pressure valve stick when cold?

cheers

#4 AllanMcD

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 08:44 PM

could the pressure valve stick when cold?

I dont think so I have never heard of that happen and I was a bike shop worker owner for 30 years.
The oil seal on the filter if its all seated properly I am sure would cope with more pressure than the pump can supply.
Allan

#5 z cars chris

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Posted 09 April 2010 - 12:48 PM

its the strangest thing ive ever heard of
theres got to be a reason for it but the only thing i can think is that a pipes blocked or the pressure releif valves stuck although that would begger beleif
i know that the oil was circulating round the oil cooler when the car was here as i felt the cooler and it was hot so oils getting round then why ts doing this is a mystery
chris

#6 drayton min man

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Posted 10 April 2010 - 08:57 PM

Strange one, ive had this happen once, but this was on a A series just after a fresh rebuild, similar issues ie blowing the seal out for the oil filter and then later discovered that the oil cooler had also 'balloned' this was traced to the brass bung directly above the oil pressure relief valve, i can see some of you thinking 'dont get you' well it is good practice on performance engines to drill out the oil gallery plugs and have them 'tapped' for future strips/rebuilds but the machine shop fail to mention that one actually pushed its way into the oil gallery (about 10mm long) and phyiscally jammed the relief valve once started (you thought they might of noticed that not much swarf was produced when drilling!)

As for your intermintant fault, this indicates something may be floating around or the relief valve sticking, it may be worth pulling it out and having a look, or even whilst the valve is out cranking it over (immobilize first to prevent runnuing!) and see if anything flushes out.

Have you got a oil pressure gauge in situ that you can read when this happens?

I have got a suzuki oil flow diagram if this will help at all

Good luck, would love to know the outcome

Geoff

#7 wtverouden

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Posted 12 April 2010 - 10:55 AM

Yo,

Took the car apart this weekend to find out what the problem was. The result, coudn't find a thing. Everyting looks alright, so put it all back together and now we wait...... See pictures down under. Relieve valve works just fine.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

The max output on the digidash memory was 92 psi (after a cold start).

cheers.

#8 wtverouden

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Posted 14 April 2010 - 07:36 PM

Hi guys,

Chris advised me to talk to the guys from Radical ( they had similar problems with their filters on the busa's). Well good luck today, we had the introduction of the Rhesus racing team today. Running a stock radical and a Aston Martin V8. They had the solution for this problem (and are very familiar with the problem).

This tip could be handy for more of you. On the hayabusa engine there is a little bolt hole on the right of the oilfilter. Put a little bolt in it, think it's M6. Than put a hoseclamp around the filter and tighten it (make sure the closure rests against the fitted bolt,). This way it's impossible for the filter to come of (due to vibrations).

On the gixxer it's different, there is no bolt hole near the filter. Take two hose clamps. Put the first one around the oilfilter housing (do not tighten yet), put the other one on the filter. Cut two aluminium pieces (40 x 20 mil) and slide them under the hose clamps (one on top, the other one underneath). Tighten both clamps. Due to the little edge on the filter it's unable to move anymore.

Problem solved.

cheers.

#9 AllanMcD

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Posted 14 April 2010 - 09:32 PM

How do you tighten your oil filter ?
They do not come slack if they are tightened properly if they did boys on bikes would die.
Allan

#10 wtverouden

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 08:00 AM

How do you tighten your oil filter ?
They do not come slack if they are tightened properly if they did boys on bikes would die.
Allan



Hi Allan,

After touching the gasket, turn it over twice. Like it's said on the filter itself. Using the proper tool. What's your advice on doing this? I'm familiar with car engines, not with bike engines.

Thnx Pim

#11 edsmini

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 08:45 AM

[quote name='wtverouden' date='Apr 14 2010, 08:36 PM' post='1797384']
Hi guys,

Chris advised me to talk to the guys from Radical ( they had similar problems with their filters on the busa's). Well good luck today, we had the introduction of the Rhesus racing team today. Running a stock radical and a Aston Martin V8. They had the solution for this problem (and are very familiar with the problem).

This tip could be handy for more of you. On the hayabusa engine there is a little bolt hole on the right of the oilfilter. Put a little bolt in it, think it's M6. Than put a hoseclamp around the filter and tighten it (make sure the closure rests against the fitted bolt,). This way it's impossible for the filter to come of (due to vibrations).

On the gixxer it's different, there is no bolt hole near the filter. Take two hose clamps. Put the first one around the oilfilter housing (do not tighten yet), put the other one on the filter. Cut two aluminium pieces (40 x 20 mil) and slide them under the hose clamps (one on top, the other one underneath). Tighten both clamps. Due to the little edge on the filter it's unable to move anymore.

Problem solved.

cheers.
[/quote


could you please post some pictures once you have done the mod.

cheers
Ed

#12 wtverouden

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 09:12 AM

This is the solution for the hayabusa engine. My question was exactly the same, why doesn't it come slack on a bike???... Their answer was not very clear, but the conclusion was that the engine was more rigid in a car than in a bike (it sounded plausible, but i'm not a bike mechanic.

Posted Image

Posted Image

When my mod is ready i will post some pictures as well.

cheers.

#13 AllanMcD

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 10:25 AM

Hi Allan,

After touching the gasket, turn it over twice. Like it's said on the filter itself. Using the proper tool. What's your advice on doing this? I'm familiar with car engines, not with bike engines.

Thnx Pim

I just tighten using the a filter wrench and have fitted thousands over the last 30+ years
In the picture you have showen the filter dosnt look like it isnt on far enough it looks like it needs about an other half turn I dont think you should see the o'ring.
I have just been out and had a look at a couple of my bikes (Hondas) and the filter is as near as damit metal to metal (I cant get in to see the busa)

If the filter is on far enough it wont come slack but putting a retainer on can not be a bad idea.
This design of filter has been used by Yamaha Suzuki Honda and Kawasaki for many years on many different types of bike from high reving fours to single cylinder with no problems.
Allan

Ps some bikes ar solid mounted

Edited by AllanMcD, 15 April 2010 - 10:26 AM.





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