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Vtec Backfiring Before Starting.


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#1 shyfd

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 05:23 PM

Hey all

I managed to get my vtec started for the first time the other day.

At first it would back fire when turning over but now it will do one back fire and then the next try it runs.

When it is running it is very lumpy with not much pick up on the speed when revved.

Its a standard Vtec with zcars exhaust and a Hydra ECU. I have checked that all cyclinders are firing and have checked the cam timing.

I think it is running the standard map set by zcars.

Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks

#2 al_reidy

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 05:30 PM

Hey all

I managed to get my vtec started for the first time the other day.

At first it would back fire when turning over but now it will do one back fire and then the next try it runs.

When it is running it is very lumpy with not much pick up on the speed when revved.

Its a standard Vtec with zcars exhaust and a Hydra ECU. I have checked that all cyclinders are firing and have checked the cam timing.

I think it is running the standard map set by zcars.

Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks



I had this exact problem also. i found all sorts of wiring issues with zcars's hydra loom. i found that the map sensor, throttle position sensor and idle control valve connectors would become connected if i twisted the wires. so i pulled the entire loom off the engine and slightly crushed / cleaned up all the pins in the honda plugs. this made a tighter grip on the connectors and it was then able to start. it - even now wont start when the air is cold. i dont think my tuner did a good job of the map lower down the rev range.

i have come the conclusion that the base map wasnt up to much and ended up towing it to the tuners.

also check that the idle control valve actually spins in the throttle body, you do have to remove the throttle body for this though.

I still have odd idle issues and partial throttle annoyances, beginning to think hydras are not very good...

i hope this helps....

#3 al_reidy

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 05:40 PM

Hey all

I managed to get my vtec started for the first time the other day.

At first it would back fire when turning over but now it will do one back fire and then the next try it runs.

When it is running it is very lumpy with not much pick up on the speed when revved.

Its a standard Vtec with zcars exhaust and a Hydra ECU. I have checked that all cyclinders are firing and have checked the cam timing.

I think it is running the standard map set by zcars.

Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks



I had this exact problem also. i found all sorts of wiring issues with zcars's hydra loom. i found that the map sensor, throttle position sensor and idle control valve connectors would become connected if i twisted the wires. so i pulled the entire loom off the engine and slightly crushed / cleaned up all the pins in the honda plugs. this made a tighter grip on the connectors and it was then able to start. it - even now wont start when the air is cold. i dont think my tuner did a good job of the map lower down the rev range.

i have come the conclusion that the base map wasnt up to much and ended up towing it to the tuners.

also check that the idle control valve actually spins in the throttle body, you do have to remove the throttle body for this though.

I still have odd idle issues and partial throttle annoyances, beginning to think hydras are not very good...

i hope this helps....



Also, just remembered, check that the hydra ecu is reading the water temp correctly. when i got mine it was miss reading the water temp i had to change the setting to "delco" i think it was... if the water temp is reading to high it wont use the warmup enrichment and cause leaning off and backfires...

#4 shyfd

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 06:55 PM

Thanks for the info

I did read your posts about the problems you had. Im downloading the software now and I take it, its just a serial lead to laptop 9 way?.

Ive never touched an ecu software beofre so might take me a while.

Thanks

#5 al_reidy

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 07:07 PM

Thanks for the info

I did read your posts about the problems you had. Im downloading the software now and I take it, its just a serial lead to laptop 9 way?.

Ive never touched an ecu software beofre so might take me a while.

Thanks


Yeah standard serial stuff.
the software is rubbish, error filled and picky.
Goto the 'select' menu, click on settings. then look at my screenshot..
Attached File  Screen_shot_2010_06_21_at_20.04.02_PM.png   20.19K   9 downloads
Attached File  Screen_shot_2010_06_21_at_20.04.31_PM.png   137.24K   16 downloads

#6 shyfd

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 07:43 PM

Mine are both set to Delco

Whilst running or with just the ignition on the TPS does not move with the throttle. Is this normal?

Edited by shyfd, 21 June 2010 - 07:44 PM.


#7 al_reidy

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 08:02 PM

Mine are both set to Delco

Whilst running or with just the ignition on the TPS does not move with the throttle. Is this normal?


tps, throttle position sensor should move. but check it in the settings - max and min setting and will give you a feedback option that will show its current position.

check the plugs...remove and move it manually..??

#8 shyfd

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 08:20 PM

To be honest it looks damaged. Ive checked the wiring to ecu which seems fine as long as it wired correct.

I will take it off tomos and check it manually.

Thanks for your help

#9 cptkirk

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 08:19 AM

You can check if the TPS is working with it position. You can use a mulitmeter, forgive me I cant remember which two wires to put it into but you can push the probes into the back end of the connector and when you see around 3V you have got it, when you open the throttle you should see a change in the voltage, same goes for the MAP sensor although you have to suck on the pipe to see a change in volts on the MAP sensor.

I am pretty sure I read somewhere that you can check the air idle valve when it running by sticking your finger in the throttle body and feeling if it moves when you come off the revs, just mind your finger if you do it that way.

#10 shyfd

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 12:29 PM

MMMMMMMMM I think its defiantly broken. Took it off and it was rattling. No change in voltage coming out when turned.

Some of the casing was also damaged so I helped it open to find this

Posted Image

Honda will only sell one with the throttle body at around £700. I have found a place selling them on there own for about £200.

The engine must have fallen on it before it was put in the frame. Before i even got the kit. ( Not from Zcars)

Edited by shyfd, 22 June 2010 - 12:31 PM.


#11 cptkirk

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 03:59 PM

you can get TPS sensors on ebay, they are from the states but still only £50 inc p&p:

ebay TPS

#12 shyfd

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 10:19 PM

Thanks Andy

I had already emailed them to check if they are the correct ones. They have replied saying they are the same in the US as in the Uk so I think I will just order one of them.

#13 cptkirk

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 08:23 AM

Cool.

I only knew about them as I have been looking into getting a bigger throttle body (74mm & hence the need for a new TPS), 4bar MAP sensor, a smaller pulley, reworking my supercharger inlet, intercooler sandwich plate, Toda cams and changing the air filter, should net me approx 340WHP - a reasonable jump from 288 for about £1500. Something to aim for in the future.

Let us know if it cures the problem, although I am guessing it will have a significant effect.

#14 Mini Type R

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 12:34 PM

I changed my car to throttle bodies so may still have the old TPS if you haven't already ordered one?

#15 shyfd

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 06:31 PM

Hey Mini Type R

Ive ordered one now but if for some reason its not correct then I might have to take you up on your offer.

Thanks




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