19 replies to this topic

[tieclubbyestate]

what are the good points and bad points ?

[MRA]

A beam axle is correctly set up will give you better handling, neater and tighter turn in's.

The down sides are...

1) you will lose your boot space.
2) you can end up with oversteer on heavy braking in to a corner..

A beam axle will be lighter as well

[mini_mad69]

Are you sure you don't mean beam subframe?

Beam axle is alot of work.

[RobG295]

How would a beam axle fair on the lumpy roads we seem to have everywhere nowadays. Both wheels being joined I would imagine may be a slight disadvantage on uneven surfaces as they will mirror each other (hence the better turn in etc!) so hit a lump with inside wheel and the outside will kick up....causing loss of grip and major oversteer I would have thought!

Rob

[TopCatCustom]

Is this ANOTHER thread where people get beam axles and rear beams/beam subframes mixed up?

[andymini12]

i think he is on about rear beams.

[tieclubbyestate]

Is this ANOTHER thread where people get beam axles and rear beams/beam subframes mixed up?

I am planning on turning my subframe into a beam or whatever it is :S

[TopCatCustom]

There is a big difference between a rear beam, and a beam axle- not being funny if I sound so but here is the difference:

Rear Beam set up


Beam Axle


Both shamelessly nicked off google. A rear beam just saves weight and retains standard mini type suspension, a beam axle is completely different, keeps 100% of tyres in contact with surface when cornering hard unlike radius arms, however there is a large amount more unsprung weight.

[Ethel]

How would a beam axle fair on the lumpy roads we seem to have everywhere nowadays. Both wheels being joined I would imagine may be a slight disadvantage on uneven surfaces as they will mirror each other (hence the better turn in etc!) so hit a lump with inside wheel and the outside will kick up....causing loss of grip and major oversteer I would have thought!

Rob

Radius arms are the perfect suspension, if you eliminate body roll, because the wheel remains perpendicular to the car. If a bump deflects a solid axle (and lots of other suspension linkages) the wheel tilts and steers just like a bike when you lean it in to a corner.

2CV's have very sloppy suspension, but they also have radius arms on all 4 corners.

[tieclubbyestate]

There is a big difference between a rear beam, and a beam axle- not being funny if I sound so but here is the difference:

Rear Beam set up


Beam Axle


Both shamelessly nicked off google. A rear beam just saves weight and retains standard mini type suspension, a beam axle is completely different, keeps 100% of tyres in contact with surface when cornering hard unlike radius arms, however there is a large amount more unsprung weight.

OOOO ok thanks makes sense now

what would you go for? and is it worth chopping up my subframe or just keep it as it is?

[Ethel]

How you use your estate will make a difference. Coilovers are great on lightweight cars for making them even lighter & adjusting the spring rate to suit. Rubber suspension works brilliantly in allowing little flyweight Minis to carry widely varying loads without bottoming out or wallowing wildly in corners.

[RobG295]

How would a beam axle fair on the lumpy roads we seem to have everywhere nowadays. Both wheels being joined I would imagine may be a slight disadvantage on uneven surfaces as they will mirror each other (hence the better turn in etc!) so hit a lump with inside wheel and the outside will kick up....causing loss of grip and major oversteer I would have thought!

Rob

Radius arms are the perfect suspension, if you eliminate body roll, because the wheel remains perpendicular to the car. If a bump deflects a solid axle (and lots of other suspension linkages) the wheel tilts and steers just like a bike when you lean it in to a corner.

2CV's have very sloppy suspension, but they also have radius arms on all 4 corners.

Cheers dude makes sense!

[MRA]

Radius arms are the perfect suspension, if you eliminate body roll,

Unfortunately eliminateing body roll is not as easy as making and fitting a beam axle, on lumby and bumpy surfaces they are great as long as you don't get any axle tramp, ie with a panhard rod as the car goes up it also follows an arc dictated by the panhard rod, therefore the body moves from side to side, now if you design the panhard rod to avoid this, ie a "Y" shaped 3 point "panhard" type part then your handling will be great

[Cooperman]

There often seems to be confusion on here as to the difference between 'Road-holding' and 'Handling'.
This was explained to me years ago as follows:

Road-holding is a measurement of the cars ability to resist the centrifugal force acting at right angles to the direction of travel when cornering and is measured in 'G's'.
Handling is the way in which the car responds dynamically to steering, braking and power inputs as perceived by the driver.

It is, therefore, possible to have a car which has poor (in relative terms) roadholding, but excellent handling. I think that a good example of this might be the original Ford Anglia on cross-ply tyres.
A Mini, in general, has both good road-holding and good handling, although in some motorsport disciplines it is possible to trade road-holding for handling. This happens with rally cars where handling is critical at all times and road holding can be compromised due to the type of tyre being used and the suspension settings. I've also driven track cas where the road-holding was superb, but the handling was only so-so.

I hope this is helpful.

[biggav]

I had a Rear Beam set up with coil over spax all round.

Quite possibly the best handling car i have ever driven!

It is well worth buying the pre-made aluminium beam which can be swapped with your existing subframe in only a few hours (subject to ability, hidden rust and changes to suspension)

Once fitted, you also have much more control over geometry set up... i fitted mine at the same time as adjustable tie bars, lower arms and coil overs all round, then was unable to drive the car at over 10mph to the place that set it up with tyres squealing at every corner and the feeling that the back was trying to overtake the front!

Thankfully, Pitstop at Brize norton set the car up and it handled like it was on Rails!