8 replies to this topic

[John Clayton]

2-3 weeks ago I flushed (with RadFlush) and refilled my 87 Mini with Red OAT antifreeze (it wasn't clear what type of Antifreeze if any was in the Rad before) but then my Dad told me that he never runs older cars on Red Antifreeze as it can rot through the cooling hoses.

I googled it and found the following:

Apparently the OAT antifreezes will also attack conventional silicon gasket sealing compounds, Hylomar and its derivatives, the traditional rubber and fabric based water hoses and so on.
http://www.da7c.co.u..._antifreeze.htm


http://www.lro.com/f...hp?f=18&t=59554
[start with the weblink in the 1st post]

Anyone else got any thoughts on it?

[John Clayton]

P.S. This is the Antifreeze I'm using:
http://www.commaoil....uide/view/6/351

It doesn't say anything on the bottle or in the Technical Data Sheet (downloadable from the above web page) about it not being suitable for older engines. However, it does say that it is "for modern aluminium engines".

When you search on the Comma website for which of their products are suitable for an Austin Mini, it does actually show only this Antifreeze (they sell 3-4 types inc Green/Blue):

Products For Your ROVER GROUP-AUSTIN & MORRIS Mini 1000 (1980-1992) Petrol
http://www.commaoil....de/vrm/6/7358/1

[MiniLandy]

Purely from a chemical viewpoint, after reading through those data sheets (I study chemistry at a level), it should be fine. It's not strongly acidic, alcohols are very weak acids.

Found this bit ironic though:

"Conditions to avoid: Heat"

[charie t]

Blue is for classic mini's, the rust protection is different in the different colours.

[TopGearRules]

DONT use OAT coolant; that is specially for alloy/aluminum engines (eg. K series engines). The A series is steel/iron and needs rust protection, s you need to use the Blue/Green coolant. I would advice draining the OAT coolant you have now and replacing it with the proper stuff. Remember to take the used coolant to the dump as it takes like maple sirup and animals will be attracted to it.

Hope this helps, Alex!!

[John Clayton]

Righto, I've emailed Comma's technical dept (referring them to this thread) so we'll see what the verdict is in due course...

[John Clayton]

Initially I didn't hear anything back from Comma so I phoned up and spoke to someone who was covering the desk while the Technical Guru was away. I then got an email back and things went like this:

Good Morning,



Thank you for your enquiry.



There are essentially two different types of coolant under discussion here – one that contains silicate based corrosion inhibitors (G48) and one that contains the more modern OAT based inhibitors (G30). The more modern, OAT based product was not introduced until the mid 1990s and whilst it would more than likely be suitable for most vehicles manufactured before this date it simply wasn’t around when the vehicle in question was manufactured. For this reason we recommend a product based on the older, silicate chemistry which is much more representative of the technology that would have been around at the time. This is a general rule of thumb we apply to all vehicles that are produced before the inception of OAT based coolants except where the manufacturer has issued specific instructions to the contrary (Toyota for example).



If you require any further information, please do not hesitate to contact me.


Kindest Regards
[FT]

Dear [FT],

Thanks very much for your advice below. My issue with Comma is as follows. I bought your OAT Antifreeze on the basis of:
a) The fact that its description on the bottle doesn't indicate any issues with older cars i.e. it appears to be entirely suitable for my vehicle, and nothing indicates otherwise
b) I double-checked this with your website and it specifically recommends this Antifreeze for my year of Mini

To now be informed that this is incorrect (having spent several hours flushing the system and filling it with the Antifreeze above) is unacceptable. As such, I would like either of the following:
1) A categorical assurance from Comma that this Antifreeze is NOT going to damage my engine/cooling system during its 5 year life and an undertaking to remedy any damage if this does not prove to be a correct assessment
2) Comma to pay for my cooling system to be drained and refilled with the correct antifreeze, as the goods were mis-advertised as being 'fit for purpose' for my specific car when they are in fact not (and costly consequential damage will be the result i.e. cooling system leaks and even a cyl head gasket failure as a result).

I look forward to hearing from you in due course.

Regards,
John Clayton



Dear Mr Clayton,



Following on from our conversation yesterday I can confirm that the Mini 1000 (1980 – 1992) actually shows up in two places on our website and has two different recommendations associated with it as a result. This is of course inappropriate and as discussed I will ensure that this is reported to our data supplier so that it can be corrected in future versions.



In this particular instance neither recommendation would be considered incorrect as both are based on information provided to us by the manufacturer. The default recommendation for this vehicle would be for a silicate based product like Xstream G48 for the reasons I described in my previous email however Rover do allow for the use of OAT based coolants in their older vehicles as well hence the recommendation for Xstream G30 for the model listed under ‘ROVER GROUP-AUSTIN & MORRIS’. When listed under ‘MINI incl. MINI ONE’ which is the later BMW owned brand, the recommendation follows BMWs preference for silicate based coolants and is therefore listed as Xstream G48. Since both recommendations appear in our data they would both be covered by our guarantee in the very unlikely event that either product were to cause damage. I must stress that it is very unlikely that either product would cause damage provided they are used in accordance with the instructions. Both the silicate and OAT products in our range must pass similar industry standard tests for corrosion and compatibility.



That being the case it should not be necessary to drain and refill your cooling system with a different product as Xstream G30 is endorsed by Rover for this vehicle and neither would I expect this product to cause any damage whilst in use. I have enclosed an electronic copy of our guarantee for your information as this is not yet displayed on our website (it will be soon!). It is however included in the front of our printed guide which is distributed to over 13000 workshops and motor factors annually so its certainly no secret!



Please accept my apologies for the confusion and thanks for bringing this to our attention.



Kind Regards



[KR]

Technical Advisor

Comma Oil & Chemicals Ltd

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Before sending this to me, KR kindly phoned and explained that Rover had disseminated a technical bulletin stating that OAT Antifreeze (Red) IS OK for use in the Mini.

All in all, I was very impressed with Comma for tieing this up relatively quickly -and knowledgeably. Service like this is not as common as one might hope nowadays, and is commendable.

Edited by John Clayton, 14 April 2011 - 04:20 PM.

[Sprocket]

The MPi cars left the factory with the 'red' coolant

[Lubeboy]

would not worry so much... silica based coolant protect by laying down a layer of silica to protect surface, so you get metal protected... OAT technology is more chemical in nature and does not lay down a film, but simply protects exposed potential metal areas... OAT technology is better than silica, hence all the "extended life coolants" use OATS...

The one and only problem you might see would be... if you had used silica for a long period, you might get some build up around connections... overtime using OAT you will remove that layer and hence might get some leakage...