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Rear Wheel Bearing Play, Advice Needed :)


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#1 proyecton10

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 01:40 PM

Hi there, since our car was build we´ve been having quite a bit of play in the rear wheels as if the bearings were gone. We found out that the rose joints of the rear suspension arms were slightly bigger then the bolts provided with the kit.

Posted Image
Posted Image (short video showing play in rosejoint)

Furthermore in the rear right wheel we found some play in the hub itself and we are unsure of what is cousing it.So we started thinking the driveshaft was maybe not tight enough because we were using conical nuts at the end of the shaft, but we conclude it was not a problem of tighting.

Posted Image

Previously a spacer was welded to the driveshaft end and becasue we misscalculate the lenght of the shaft and we are now thinking the play might be caused because the spacer is not sitting correctly against the bearing. At the moment the edge of our spacer is sitting on the blue market line in the picture which is a anglular surface and we are unsure if it should be sitting on the surface 1 or 2 in the picture.


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Play in the hub is decresed when the driveshaft is tighten but there is still to much play!! Any suggestions would me more than welcome.

Thanks a lot to everyone :)

Edited by proyecton10, 30 September 2011 - 01:42 PM.


#2 cptkirk

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 01:48 PM

Re the bolt/rose joint problem can you measure the bolt and hole with a digital vernier gauge and let us know what the difference is - I am guessing that the bolt is 12mm and the rose joint in 12.7mm (1/2") - if you can measure and let us know that would be appreciated.

I am unsure as to your wheel bearing problem as I have not used a spacer.

#3 edsmini

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 04:45 PM

i agree with cptkirk, the bolt and rose joint are not compatible, my mini had the same problem with movement in the trailing arms, but all i had to do was tighten the bolts to death and that sorted the problem. im not sure what the spacer is all about !!! is the drive shaft long enough to go through the nut or does it seem too short?
is it not possible to remove the driveshaft spacer and move the full trailing arm inward. i spent months tweaking the drive train on my mini, but it was brilliant once i got it all sorted out.

Ed

#4 proyecton10

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 05:57 PM

Thank you both! We will measure the bolt but we suppose it´s a 12mm instead of a 12.7mm. Can you get 12.7mm (1/2) bolt of the shelf?

The spacer on the driveshaft was used because we joined our driveshaft ourselfs, and we miscalculate the length of it. Both our suspension arms are all the way in, with all the washers on the outside.

Our question is:

- should the hub have some play without the driveshaft in place?

In our case it does have play

- should this play disappear by tightening the driveshaft?

If so, our hub still has play and we are unsure if it might be because of how the spacer sits against the bearing. What do you think?

We will try to make another video of the play in the hub as it´s quite difficult for us to explain the issue in a better way.

Thanks a lot for helping us out :)

Edited by proyecton10, 30 September 2011 - 05:58 PM.


#5 edsmini

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 08:27 PM

Thank you both! We will measure the bolt but we suppose it´s a 12mm instead of a 12.7mm. Can you get 12.7mm (1/2) bolt of the shelf?



The spacer on the driveshaft was used because we joined our driveshaft ourselfs, and we miscalculate the length of it. Both our suspension arms are all the way in, with all the washers on the outside.

Our question is:

- should the hub have some play without the driveshaft in place?

In our case it does have play

- should this play disappear by tightening the driveshaft?


If so, our hub still has play and we are unsure if it might be because of how the spacer sits against the bearing. What do you think?

We will try to make another video of the play in the hub as it´s quite difficult for us to explain the issue in a better way.

Thanks a lot for helping us out :)


-the nut should be fully tightened, its not a tapered bearing on the rear arms.

-no there shouldnt be any play in the hub or bearing

- you should get them from a decent nut and bolt shop, otherwise im sure zcars will send you some.




by fitting the spacer, there might not be enough spline going through the hub, i would check that there is plenty spline going through the hub. it could also just be a knackered bearing (sometimes thing can be faulty when new)

any other comments from other zcars owners ? am i talking a load of pesh? :-)

Ed

Edited by edsmini, 30 September 2011 - 08:31 PM.


#6 rustandoil

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 07:12 AM

Sounds like something else i am going to have to check :(

#7 ZCars Steve

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 07:55 PM


Thank you both! We will measure the bolt but we suppose it´s a 12mm instead of a 12.7mm. Can you get 12.7mm (1/2) bolt of the shelf?



The spacer on the driveshaft was used because we joined our driveshaft ourselfs, and we miscalculate the length of it. Both our suspension arms are all the way in, with all the washers on the outside.

Our question is:

- should the hub have some play without the driveshaft in place?

In our case it does have play

- should this play disappear by tightening the driveshaft?


If so, our hub still has play and we are unsure if it might be because of how the spacer sits against the bearing. What do you think?

We will try to make another video of the play in the hub as it´s quite difficult for us to explain the issue in a better way.

Thanks a lot for helping us out :)


-the nut should be fully tightened, its not a tapered bearing on the rear arms.

-no there shouldnt be any play in the hub or bearing

- you should get them from a decent nut and bolt shop, otherwise im sure zcars will send you some.




by fitting the spacer, there might not be enough spline going through the hub, i would check that there is plenty spline going through the hub. it could also just be a knackered bearing (sometimes thing can be faulty when new)

any other comments from other zcars owners ? am i talking a load of pesh? :-)

Ed

if your stguggling for 1/2" unf bolts I can send some
it is possible that
a] the bearing is u/s
b] the spacer is not sitting true against the bearing face

steve

#8 proyecton10

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 08:52 PM

Thank you Steve.
We will machine the spacer to ensure it is sitting true against the bearing surface. The Mini has only been driven for about 10 miles, so the bearing should be in perfect condition.

We will ask around in order to get the bolts and if we can´t find them we will let you know.
Thanks a lot once again!!!

#9 proyecton10

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 09:29 AM

We´ve just uploaded 3 new vids showing the play in the hub. We re-machined the spacer on the driveshaft making sure it was sitting flat on the bearing and the play was still present. We now think our bearing is definitely causing the play, what do you think?

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

It has only done 10 miles or so and we notice the play from the beginning which makes us think either it was an manufacturer error or it was not fitted correctly. Lets hope Steve can help us pout and determine what the correct solution is.

Thank you all :)

#10 edsmini

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 03:06 PM

have you tried it with the driveshaft in and tightened? there will be a small amount of play until the driveshaft is tightened fully? try it and see. if its still got play i would fit a new hub and bearing to be on the safe side.

is the hub pressed into the bearing?
or does it just slide in by hand?

Ed

#11 proyecton10

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 03:13 PM

Thank you Ed, the bearing is pressed and does not allow any sliding. There is still play even with the driveshaft tighten adn we didn´t wanted to over-tighten them. Are these conical bearings or have any type of conical races that would restrict the play by tightening even more?

Thanks a lot once again :)

#12 edsmini

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 04:12 PM

theses are straight bearings and require tightening up quite well, the play in the bearing get less as you tighten it up. the hub should turn freely once the shaft is fully tightened

put the shaft back in and tighten up,

have look at a haynes manual on the lb ft of torque for a mondeo front driveshaft as that will be the same as you need for the driveshaft.

it sounds to me that you are not tightening the shaft up enough ?

speak to simon at zcars to confirm what i have said but anytime i had the shafts out of my mini i used the air impact to tighten them back up. (rough or what) :-)

eat some weetabix and get it tightened if that fails then the bearing must be knackered

Ed

#13 proyecton10

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 05:46 PM

Wow Ed, thanks for shearing all that knowledge with us. If you could please confirm us where should our "spacer" contact the bearing. If you look at the picture we posted earlier, should it be touching surface 1 ir 2.

Thanks a lot and tomorrow morning we will tighten that nut up following haynes indications.

Cheers :)

#14 edsmini

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 06:47 PM

the spacer should be the same diameter as the end of the cv joint, it should tighten against number 2 in your previous post. but measure the end of the cv joint and make your spacer the same shape and diameter, then get the thing put back together and get it out for a test drive :-)

Ed

#15 edsmini

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 06:51 PM

also make sure that the nut on the end of the shaft has got a split pin through it or the nyloc has got a grip. we don't want the driveshaft slackening itself whilst driving or you will be in trouble, as it will rattle the teeth out of your head

Ed :-)




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