Jump to content


Photo

1971 Special Tuning 4X4 Mini


  • Please log in to reply
39 replies to this topic

#16 mab01uk

mab01uk

    Moved Into The Garage

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,778 posts
  • Local Club: Mini Cooper Register

Posted 07 December 2013 - 04:57 PM

You might also like to read this 14 page thread and links on the Mk1 forum about 4WD Mini's and Mokes which may help in your research:

http://mk1-forum.net....php?f=3&t=3570



#17 Moke59Prototype

Moke59Prototype

    Starting My Mini Up

  • Noobies
  • Pip
  • 2 posts
  • Location: Itabuna

Posted 07 December 2013 - 07:53 PM

Many thanks mab01uk. There's some really good stuff in the other thread about the 4WD Minis and the Mokes. Thanks again. Very useful.

 

Since posting my comment I've actually spoken to Basil Wales and he confirms that it was a 4WD Moke that was cannibalised and not an Ant. We both agreed that the problem is that originally one person maybe speculated that it was an Ant only for the next to pick up on that and then say that it was an Ant. Very soon the speculation becomes fact and is proliferated all over the internet and even into print. 



#18 DugganC17

DugganC17

    Speeding Along Now

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 359 posts

Posted 08 December 2013 - 04:53 PM

have looked it to making one of these before and all the info is in the threads that have been linked to including one where a chap in australia makes a diff casing to hold a 3rd output for the propshaft and this then boltds onto the back of a standard box

 

the only bit that is not explained or detailled is the cable operated clutch that is positioned just in front of the rear diff on the mokes and allows to drive in 2 wheel drive on the roads and then allow power to the diff for 4 wheel drive. i did notice that the special tuning one though doesnt have this clutch as i pressume that as its a race car it is unessacary and constant 4 wheel drive is required any way so not required

 

so if any one has some info or pics of this clutch i would like to hear from you



#19 HUBBA.HUBBA

HUBBA.HUBBA

    Up Into Fourth

  • TMF+ Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,823 posts
  • Location: Sutton Coldfield
  • Local Club: Loan wolf

Posted 08 December 2013 - 06:56 PM

Many thanks mab01uk. There's some really good stuff in the other thread about the 4WD Minis and the Mokes. Thanks again. Very useful.
 
Since posting my comment I've actually spoken to Basil Wales and he confirms that it was a 4WD Moke that was cannibalised and not an Ant. We both agreed that the problem is that originally one person maybe speculated that it was an Ant only for the next to pick up on that and then say that it was an Ant. Very soon the speculation becomes fact and is proliferated all over the internet and even into print.

Excuse my ingnorance, what is an 'ant'?

#20 jaydee

jaydee

    Crazy About Mini's

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,565 posts

Posted 08 December 2013 - 07:32 PM

If you browse through this they talk about the 'ant'

 

http://mk1-forum.net....php?f=3&t=3570


Edited by jaydee, 08 December 2013 - 07:34 PM.


#21 mab01uk

mab01uk

    Moved Into The Garage

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,778 posts
  • Local Club: Mini Cooper Register

Posted 08 December 2013 - 09:29 PM

ant-1_zpse412be53.jpeg

 

ant-2_zps6eaa1e1f.jpg

 

ant-3_zps4d2e8587.jpg

 

Austin Ant (ADO 19)

It was in 1964 that work started on the Ant, designed by Sir Alec Issigonis for the then BMC. Sir Alec Issigonis had already applied for various patents in 1962 which mainly covered the transmission aspects of the design. Conceived for two markets, one being for military use as the Moke had been rejected by the Army mainly because of its ground clearance and only two wheel drive. One feature that the Army had asked for was that the passengers seat would fold-down flat, so allowing a stretcher to be carried It was also thought that there could be a market for a small Land Rover type vehicle. So the Ant which was based on the 1100 platform was only 3ins longer than the Mini at 10ft 3ins. If this vehicle had reached the market place would it have been the start of a new vehicle that would have become a cult like the Mini........

Scroll Down for more info and photos:

http://www.austinmem...e48/page48.html


Edited by mab01uk, 08 December 2013 - 09:33 PM.


#22 DugganC17

DugganC17

    Speeding Along Now

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 359 posts

Posted 08 December 2013 - 09:54 PM

been thinking and would any kind person be able to measure a diff casing so that i could model one for four wheel drive on cad and create some 3d models to take to a machine shop for a price to be made

 

cheers



#23 Ryan n Angela

Ryan n Angela

    Mini Mad

  • Noobies
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 196 posts
  • Location: Ilkeston

Posted 13 December 2013 - 06:21 PM

This car has always interested me as a fan of the 1275GT. What an incredible development it could have been for the GT if only the powers that be had given it the green light. It could have catapulted the GT to the lofty hights of the Coopers racing success. A more powerful and modernised engine with this genious little 4x4 set up! Stuff dreams are made of.

#24 DomCr250

DomCr250

    Super Mini Mad

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 667 posts
  • Location: Berkshire
  • Local Club: 16V mini club

Posted 23 January 2014 - 04:45 PM

The rear axle and radius arm mods are beautifully simple, looks like a combination of radius arm and front drum hub?

 

This looks far better than some of the rwd conversions currently used.

 

Hmmm - just need a Swift / Justy 4 x 4 engine and drive train ... always wanted an elegant way of putting the power to the rear wheels - now history has shown how it should be done.

 

Great post - thanks.



#25 Ivor Badger

Ivor Badger

    One Carb Or Two?

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 846 posts

Posted 11 December 2014 - 12:20 AM

I was told personally by Jeff Williamson on the Monday evening after the Lydden rallycross that the drive train came from a moke that lived in Abingdon



#26 Ethel

Ethel

    ..is NOT a girl!

  • TMF Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 25,379 posts
  • Local Club: none

Posted 11 December 2014 - 12:55 AM

From what I've read the Ant also had an inclined block and a transfer/reduction box that looked like an extra Crown wheel in weird siamese diff casing.



#27 Spider

Spider

    Moved Into The Garage

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,845 posts
  • Location: NSW
  • Local Club: South Australian Moke Club

Posted 13 December 2014 - 05:36 AM

Thanks for posting those photo's up (saved me up loading them ;D ), however, this one;-

 

st-mini-quadragearboxexit.jpg

 

Sorry to say is not of the 4WD ST Mini, that used a Remote Shift gearbox and the gearlever came through the firewall, it was a weird looking thing. This pic ^ is actually that from my firend's Quadra Moke - prior to my repair of it, that's the shift rod you can see going in to the back of the Gearbox.

 

 

.................. two years on from the last post here's something to get you going on this! 

 

In starting off the post mab01uk says that the 4WD system was taken from an Ant that was used at Abingdon to tow non-starters off the end of the MG line. That fact I've found elsewhere on the internet and even in a book about rallycross Minis so it looks to have been a generally agreed fact. However in the light of what I've found out recently I don't think that the 4WD system did come from an Ant, I think that it came from a 4WD Moke made earlier in the 1960s in the Longbridge experimental workshop. Yes, they DID make a few 4WD Mokes (i.e. one engine driving all four wheels as opposed to the Twini Moke that had two engines in order to drive all four wheels.)!

 

There's a logic to it if you think about it. The rear end of an Ant and the rear end of a Mini Clubman are different. The Ant was never a Mini and the Mini never an Ant. Therefore if they had tried to swop the parts over from the Ant to the Clubman it wouldn't have been easy. Remember too that Special Tuning were in a hurry to get the 4WD Clubman out to compete with the 4WD Fords. However the rear end of a Moke was essentially the same as the rear end of a Clubman so the swop would have been relatively easy.

 

If anyone has a photo of the rear diff of an Ant you will see that it is different from the rear diff of the 4WD Clubman. (See Clubman photo posted at the beginning of this thread.)

 

I'd be interested if anyone has any comments. Am I right, or am I way off the mark?

 

59prototype, you are, as usual, on the money here. The Trailing Arms for the ST Mini were taken from the Ant and that's about it, the much of the rest of it came from one of the Prototype, single engine 4WD Mokes. A few years back, I did corespond with Basel Wales, who was head of ST when the ST 4WD Mini was built, he confirmed to me that one was built by the ST Department, however he isn't a technical person and his role was in management, so he could shed no light on any of the technical aspecs of it other than to say it was built in super quick time and that being the case, it was likely that they already had much of the 'difficult' parts on hand.

 

The rear diff of the ST Mini has been suggested to me that it maybe an X-Trac.



#28 Spider

Spider

    Moved Into The Garage

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,845 posts
  • Location: NSW
  • Local Club: South Australian Moke Club

Posted 13 December 2014 - 05:41 AM

Here's a Magazine Artical that appeared quite a few years back on the ST Mini;-

 

4WDClubman_Page_1.jpg

 

4WDClubman_Page_2.jpg

 

4WDClubman_Page_3.jpg

 

4WDClubman_Page_4.jpg

 

4WDClubman_Page_5.jpg



#29 Yams

Yams

    Super Mini Mad

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 644 posts

Posted 13 December 2014 - 06:03 PM

It would appear Tim Greenhill likes purity of thought...

 

What an interesting mini, one of the better 4wd conversions i've seen.



#30 Ivor Badger

Ivor Badger

    One Carb Or Two?

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 846 posts

Posted 13 December 2014 - 06:12 PM

to correct misinformation in the shown article. The capris used to win at Cadwell where there was no handicap time penalty. They normally ran together as a Ford group so they didn't get held up or mixed up with the lesser mortals. The 3 capris , Roger Clark, Stan Clark and Rod Chapman ran with John Taylor in an escort. I will draw a viel over how a Mini got slipped in there for one run. Stokes watched Cadwell rallycross on the Saturday, the Cadwell event was prerecorded and shown the following week. Lydden was shown on the day of the event. Stokes threw a tantrum on the Monday as why are these Fords beating us? I doubt anyone at the meeting had the courage to say "because you shut the comps dept". He demanded something was done and the mini built for the following Sat, where it thrashed the capris. iirc Brian Chatfield drove the 4wd  Mini as he had the least chance of winning the Lydden championship. Iirc Huw Weldon won it.

 

The rear diff was supposedly a spitfire/ herald item.

 

Looking at the photos, the mini would appear to have 1100/1300 front hubs. Observe the front camber and ride height which looks completely wrong.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users