112 replies to this topic

[Cooperman]

The big ends and little ends should have some side play. After removing the rods/pistons take a look at the back faces of the big ends. If the crank has previously be re-ground the undersize will be stgamped on. Alternatively they may just have 'std' stamped (for standard) or have nothing stamped on (again standard). Now look at the crankshaft surfaces at all the journals. If it is in good condition (post close-up photos on here for opinions) you can 'micro-polish' it, but it would be wise to get the machine shop to measure it first and do the polishing. If scored at all, have it re-ground to the next size down.
If the tensioner is grooved fit a new one. I've seen tensioners break up when worn.
If the water pump is good then re-use it. Get the broken bolt drilled out and the hole Heli-Coiled.
Buy a complete seal and gasket set and change all the seals. You don't want oil leaks from your nice new engine.
Always fit new cam followers as they are cheap and you never know how worn the case hardening is on the old ones.
I use some 'Hylomar' sealant during the build and a thin line of RTV sealant around the main bearing front seal.
I hope this helps.
You will need new main, big end and crankshaft thrust bearings. With regard to the thrust bearings, you can get then standard and +0.003". Before undoing the main bearing cap bolts, measure the end float in the crankshaft. Bear-in-mind that the existing thrusts will be a bit worn, but by measuring the old ones and remembering that the ones nearest the water pump end of the engine will not be worn, you can calculate whether you need the +0.003" ones to bring it back to gice an end float of 0.002" to 0.005". That's not as difficult as it sounds.

[firefox]

The big ends and little ends should have some side play. After removing the rods/pistons take a look at the back faces of the big ends. If the crank has previously be re-ground the undersize will be stgamped on. Alternatively they may just have 'std' stamped (for standard) or have nothing stamped on (again standard). Now look at the crankshaft surfaces at all the journals. If it is in good condition (post close-up photos on here for opinions) you can 'micro-polish' it, but it would be wise to get the machine shop to measure it first and do the polishing. If scored at all, have it re-ground to the next size down.
If the tensioner is grooved fit a new one. I've seen tensioners break up when worn.
If the water pump is good then re-use it. Get the broken bolt drilled out and the hole Heli-Coiled.
Buy a complete seal and gasket set and change all the seals. You don't want oil leaks from your nice new engine.
Always fit new cam followers as they are cheap and you never know how worn the case hardening is on the old ones.
I use some 'Hylomar' sealant during the build and a thin line of RTV sealant around the main bearing front seal.
I hope this helps.
You will need new main, big end and crankshaft thrust bearings. With regard to the thrust bearings, you can get then standard and +0.003". Before undoing the main bearing cap bolts, measure the end float in the crankshaft. Bear-in-mind that the existing thrusts will be a bit worn, but by measuring the old ones and remembering that the ones nearest the water pump end of the engine will not be worn, you can calculate whether you need the +0.003" ones to bring it back to gice an end float of 0.002" to 0.005". That's not as difficult as it sounds.

GULP**** Holomar thats the blue gunk in small tubes i use for water, do i put that each side of all the gaskets a thin wipe, is the main bearing front seal the crank shaft at the timing chain end, and if i dont need the crank grinding i just need standard thrust bearing, end float i just use feeler gauges, and should i fit a new oil pump sorry it is all questions,

[Cooperman]

Hylomar is indeed the blue sealant, originally developed for use on the wartime R-R Merlin engine which used to leak oil badly (more useless info). Apply a thin smear to each side of the caskets, but not ever the head gasket.
Yes, the main bearing seal is the one at the front end behind the front plate. Be careful when lowering the engine onto the box that this seal doesn't slip round a bit. If it does you will get a very nasty oil leak (been there, had that!). It seems a bit too long when fitted, but it squashes down and seals. I usually fit it onto the gearbox with a bit of RTV Silicone sealant, let it get a bit hard, then lower the engine onto the box with a bit more RTV around the upper side of the seal and at each end.
A new oil pump is always a good idea. Get a steel backed good quality one from, say, Mini Spares, not a 'cheapie' rubbish one.
Even if you don't need a crank grind, do check the crank end float. It needs to be 0.002" to 0.005" with the crank bolted in. Use feeler gauges to measure it before taking the crank out, then you'll know what to expect.
When re-assembling use plenty of Engine Assembly Lube.
It's always a good idea to remove the oil gallery core plugs (there are 4, 2 at each end of the block) and thoroughly wash out the oil galleries.
Fit a new timing chain as well - they are not expensive.
You will definately need the following tools in addition to a good basic tool kit:
A good socket set
A torque wrench
A piston ring clamp
Imperial feeler gauges
Small flat file
Flywheel puller

Ideally a digital vernier caliper is good as you can then measure all sorts of things.

We can cover the other aspects of the re-build such as the 'dummy build' which you do before final assembly, piston-ring gap checking, the careful fitting of the crankshaft, rods/pistons, camshaft, and all the other stuff later.

Possibly too much information at this time.
Get the engine stripped out and have a good look at it. Then proceed to the next stage.
I do hope this is all helping and is not 'information overload'.

[firefox]

No that is super bud, engine is in bits now , one thing i have read on here is you should be able to move the crank shaft around with 2 fingers when you assemble it, well i cant in seems tightish IE not eary to move, i was gobsmacked with the gearbox there is not a lot in it is there, do i need to clean the gearbox out and what with, i will be taking the block to the engineers on wed i will take the crank as well get them to check it, once i hear from them i will be able to order my pistons and other bits from mini spares i was looking at the P25213-20 or 40 depend on re-bore size i assume they come with the rings fitted, i will have a look for the other bits tonight thanks so much for your help

PS what is the file for, i am a joiner i work in 1/8 of an inch not thou's ha ha ha

Edited by firefox, 24 October 2011 - 04:10 PM.

[Cooperman]

If the pistons are still in the bores you won't turn the crank with your fingers. Just take it all to pieces and see what you've got.
The P21253 pistons are ideal at whatever oversize you go to. They come complete with the rings, but you should check the ring gaps after boring the block. You need to give the pistons to the machine shop so that they can hone to the correct tolerance and they will 'gap' the rings if you ask them. They will also fit the pistons to the rods as you can't do that yourself.
The file is to do any little bits of filing needed to match anything. Typically the woodruff keys which drive the timing gears from the crank to the cam sometimes need 'easing' to enable the drive or driven timing sprocket to be easily fitted.
Clean the gearbox out with a good engine cleaner like Jizer, jet wash it and finally clean it with 'brake & clutch cleaner'. In fact, clean everything with 'brake & clutch cleaner' before re-fitting. Cleanliness is everything with engine building. When doing the final assembly everything should be so clean that your hands don't get grubby.

[firefox]

Hi Bud found out why it has been blowing smoke, what is the plan now do i still need to get the bore checked and carry on as planed

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[AndyMiniMad.]

If the bores are not scored then you may get away with a hone and new rings. The crank looks fine.

[firefox]

Had a talk to myself i have started now so i will finish, i was going to ask you if i could jet wash it ha ha, looks like i have some shopping to do think i will make a list

[firefox]

If the bores are not scored then you may get away with a hone and new rings. The crank looks fine.

There is fine scratches up the bore bud i noticed when i took the head off that is why i have pulled pot 2 first, the crank and bearings are nice a shiney i will still get them checked though i have come this far so might as well go the whole hog i would be not be a happy bunny if it still blows smoke when i get it back together

[AndyMiniMad.]

Yep might as well go to the next size bore...or maybe out to 1340....no reason not to since your having to rebore anyway.

[firefox]

Yep might as well go to the next size bore...or maybe out to 1340....no reason not to since your having to rebore anyway.

Yeah took the shells out and checked they have STD stamped on them so dont look like any work has been done on it
unknown milage, its a big if, but the scatches are only fine if the engineer says the bores are ok did you say they can hone it and just fit new rings and replace the shells with standard i will ask them just my head is in a spin now all for the sake of a bloody broken ring

Edited by firefox, 24 October 2011 - 05:57 PM.

[Cooperman]

Get the machine shop to check the bores and advise you. Also get them to check the cam bearings. The crank journal looks good and if the others are as good it should be fine with just a micro-polish.
With regard to bore wear, you could go to the next size up and have new pistons then you know it will be fine, but more expensive.
The trouble is knowing where to stop.
You could fit a better cam, for example, and have some head work done whilst it's all down. It's down to budget in the end.
Don't forget to remove the oil gallery core plugs. Wash everything out with Jizer and jetwash it all, including down the oilways.
You'll have a lovely engine when it's all back together.

[firefox]

hi bud yeah new pistons are a must,not sure where the oli gallery core plugs are is it the 2 at the clutch end of the block, will get it right with your help, might as well

[Cooperman]

There are two oil gallery plugs at each end. They are about 1/2" diameter and slightly recessed into the block ends. You will need to carefully drill these out so as not to damage the bore into which these sit as the new ones could leak if not fitted into good housing bores. Use a drill slightly smaller than the diameter of the plugs and they'll come out. Wash out the galleries very thoroughly. I pull pieces of cotton rag through soaked in paraffin on a long piece of wire from a wire coat hanger (so they do have a use after all). Mini Spares sell new plugs.

[firefox]

gotcha no problem do halfords sell jizer and brake/clutch cleaner