18 replies to this topic

[DeadBert]

I'm looking at options to improve my cars handling and behaviour on the road. Moved from the Sportspack alloys to 12x6 and felt the handling and acceleration improve slightly. Perfectly happy with the car on completely smooth tarmac but it starts getting a little twitchy on B-Roads. Tramlining and bump steer become a problem and result in some wayward handling which ruins some of the enjoyment of driving.

I know everyone is of the opinion that 10" wheels are the best for handling but my main problem is that I really don't like the look of them, or the stance that they give the Mini. Then again a part of me thinks that handling is far more important than aesthetics. Personally, purely for looks, I prefer 13x7.

Already have adjustable dampers/bottom arms/tie rods/rear brackets. I'm looking at getting some Force Racing wheels, either 13x7 or 10x6.

My questions are:

1. How much does weight affect the handling of the car? As they're Force Racing wheels won't the 13x7 wheels still be comparable to "normal" 10 inch wheels when it comes to weight? So the weight saving benefit of smaller wheels won't be as important.

2. If I go for 10x6 I'll be getting dished wheels as I like a low wide stance to the car. This will of course result in having to have the wheels stick out further away from the car. How detrimental to handling will this be? Again, would this negate the benefits of switching to 10" wheels?


Unfortunately I've never driven or been a passanger in a Mini with 10" wheels so really have to rely on the advice of others.

(Car is currently undergoing a rebuild so arches and brakes can be changed as needed for smaller wheels.)

Thanks in advance

Chris

[Cooperman]

Overall the best wheels are probably the 12" with 165/60 tyres. 10" will probably give the best overall handling.
With regard to road holding, on a totally smooth dry tarmac road the 13" wheels with 175 section width tyres will probably give the very best road-holding, but not necessarily the best handling.
The biggest effect on handling is the accuracy of the suspension settings and whichever wheels you use, if the suspension is not set accurately, both front and rear, the car will never handle at its best.
With correct suspension, the handling will be optimised.
On bumpy roads the section depth of the tyres as fitted to 13" wheels is too low for the Minis already short suspension travel and the tyre sidewalls need to be deep to act as additional suspension. With a 10" tyre the section depth is 70% of width so it works well.
It terms of looks, many think that the car was designed to have 10" wheels and consequently they seem to be the best proportioned wheels in terms of appearance and width. That is personal choice.

[bmcecosse]

For me - the 10" set up wins hands down........ But as above -you MUST set it up properly.

[minisilverbullet]

Are 10" still better even if they are 6.5 - 7" wide?

[R1minimagic]

Anything above 6" is bad for handling so try not to go too wide!!

[Cooperman]

Are 10" still better even if they are 6.5 - 7" wide?

You can't get road tyres for wheels over 6" wide at 10" dia. The max width as recommended by the tyre manufacturers for a 165/70 x 10 is 6".

[racingbob]

i am realy happy with 12' x5 165 tyres car has great feel to it and confident in cornering and not bad over bumps no bump steer
obviously with some camber and good adj. shocks

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[R1minimagic]

I dont think you can get better than 12x4.5/5 with 165/60 tyres, they are great!!!!

[spi-bwk]

My first mini (83 Sprite) was on 6x10 revolutions.
My current mini (92 Cooper) is on 6x13 sportspacks.

The Sprite had far better acceleration and handling as well as 'agility' with regard moving the car ie on the drive, parking etc

However, the aethetics of the 13s makes me stay with them on the cooper.

There's my penny worth.

[Cooperman]

I have both 4.5" and 5" wheels on my 'S', admittedly on 10" rims, and my Innocenti has 4.4" x 10. With 165/70 x 10 tyres I don't notice any difference between wheel widths.
The most important thing is to set the suspension accurately all round, that is far more important than wheel widths in achieving road holding and optimising handling. Next in order of importance is tyre type, then tyre pressures.
I think too many worry about wheel widths and neglect the important things in road holding anf handling.
Probably the best handling Mini I ever owned was a 1961 Mini 850 with 3.5" wide wheels, 145/80 x 10 Michelin 'X' tyres and Armstrong dampers, all set to standard ride height. Road holding was not brilliant, but the handling was fantastic.

[R1minimagic]

The offset on the wheels is very important as the kingpin inclination should be close to the centre of the tyre/surface contact area, with 7" wide wheels the contact point is moved considerably inwards which makes for poor characteristics on a road car

[conlad]

Just a quick sort of thinking out load moment...

How can road holding be bad and handling good? Surey for it to handle well it needs to hold the road well or its got nothing to play with in terms of good/bad handling..?

[Cooperman]

The offset on the wheels is very important as the kingpin inclination should be close to the centre of the tyre/surface contact area, with 7" wide wheels the contact point is moved considerably inwards which makes for poor characteristics on a road car

Yes, absolutely, the Mini was not designed for those huge wheels. Also the unsprung weight of the car is increased as the big wheels are much heavier.
Disadvantages include less road-holding in the wet, poorer handling, increased wheel bearing loading, wider wheel arches and wheels increasing aerodynamic drag, less accurate steering geometry, less tyre sidewall depth to help suspension travel.
What are the supposed advantages of 13" wheels? Please don't say they look better.

[conlad]

The offset on the wheels is very important as the kingpin inclination should be close to the centre of the tyre/surface contact area, with 7" wide wheels the contact point is moved considerably inwards which makes for poor characteristics on a road car

Yes, absolutely, the Mini was not designed for those huge wheels. Also the unsprung weight of the car is increased as the big wheels are much heavier.
Disadvantages include less road-holding in the wet, poorer handling, increased wheel bearing loading, wider wheel arches and wheels increasing aerodynamic drag, less accurate steering geometry, less tyre sidewall depth to help suspension travel.
What are the supposed advantages of 13" wheels? Please don't say they look better.

More to clean?

[Cooperman]

Just a quick sort of thinking out load moment...

How can road holding be bad and handling good? Surey for it to handle well it needs to hold the road well or its got nothing to play with in terms of good/bad handling..?

Road holding is the measure of the centripetal force which a vehicle can generate in a turn. It is measured in 'G' and is determined by various factors including tyres, suspension stability and roll centre height.
Handling is really nothing to do with the measured road holding. Handling is the driver's perception of the way the vehicle responds to the basic dynamic inputs of steering, application of power and braking.
For example, my Cooper 'S' on it's Yokohamas has very good road holding on tarmac, but very poor road-holding on those tyres on gravel.
When I fit gravel 'knobbly' tyres the road holding is poor on tarmac, but much better on gravel.
On the knobbly tyres, however, the handling is excellent and thus very predictable on all surfaces, even tarmac, it's just the road holding which is poor with knobblies on tarmac.
Thus road holding is not determined by the driver as it's a directly measurable attribute. Handling is how a driver feels the vehicle responds to his/her inputs and can vary from driver to driver depending on driving style, smoothness and ability.