40 replies to this topic

[Cooperman]

Dave & Jennie had a super run and to get a class win on their first ever rally is a fantastic result. They got some nice awards too.
It was a fun day out marshalling too, which I do every year on that event.
Good to meet Dave & Jennie as well and put a face to the name.
Well done you two.
(also posted in 'Mini Chat').

[rally1380]

Hi All.

Thanks for the congratulations.

We did indeed finish 49th o/a and 1st in class and 1st Beginner. Won a brand spanking new Don Barrow Potti too which was awesome (cheers Don).

Will put a full review of the rally up as soon as i can with loads of pic's but for the time being here's a couple of photo's of Beeston - Special Test 5.

Was a huge pleasure finally meeting Cooperman.....true gent. Really enjoyed both him and Barrie 'Whizzo' Williams recalling stories of rallying and some very close shaves by the sounds of it. Loved the story of the italian police and the crashed mini....very funny!!!!!!

[Cooperman]

Great photos there. That Mini does look very nice and is obviously going well.
There is a great photo of Dave & Jennie getting their awards from the famous Don Barrow on the Tour of Cheshire web-site index page (and on the 'Marshals page there is a photo of Barrie 'Whizzo' Williams and me trying to entertain the competitors whilst awaiting the results, if you really want to see it!).

[surfblue63]

Well done and congratulations.

Will you be out on the Ilkley in April?

http://www.jubilee-rally.org/

[DEPS]

Fab result. how did you find the navigation compared to the HRCR rally school day? car looks good too and a very determined looking crew!

[rally1380]

Well done and congratulations.

Will you be out on the Ilkley in April?

http://www.jubilee-rally.org/

Not sure we'll be able to do that as funds are a little stretched but we'll see nearer the time. I've heard the Ilkley is more plot and bash though and seeing as we are still very much learning the ropes i'd prefer to keep things simple....unless i'm getting the wrong end of the stick?

[rally1380]

Fab result. how did you find the navigation compared to the HRCR rally school day? car looks good too and a very determined looking crew!

Cheers. The navigation was very similar really. Certainly helped doing the rally school day so was a good investment. From what people have said, the Tour of Cheshire is a good one to start with, and we'll be back next year for another bash.

[DEPS]

Would like to think my son and I would be in a position to do ToC next year. Our clubman is still at the taking apart stage! Hoping to go to local HRCR meeting next week to do a table top rally think we need to a bit more training yet, our plotting was a bit slow at rally school!

[Cooperman]

The only thing, in historic rallying, that is better than competing with your son in a car you have re-built and prepared yourselves together is winning an event in that car with your son navigating. The first rally I won with my son navigating was the 300 mile Welsh Retro in our Cooper 'S' and it meant just so much to me.

The Tour of Cheshire is unique inasmuch as there are a lot of marshals out who were very well-known and successful competitors from a few years ago who are all members of a unique motor club called 'Ecurie Cod Fillet' (Google it for more info).
For example, last weekend there was Barrie Williams - famous racing and rally driver and the first man to win an International rally in a Cooper 'S', Will Sparrow - the last man to win an International Rally in a Mini, John Bloxham - 1969 Motoring News & National Rally Champion, Russell Brookes - British Rally Champion, John Brown - very famous co-driver who won his first International rally, the RAC, in 1961 with Eric Carlson in the SAAB, Carolyn Tyler - co-driver to many successful lady drivers, Cec Offley - a very successful and fast international driver in the 60's and early 70's in Minis and Sprites and Peter Bryant - Ari Vatanan's co-driver in the 'works' Escorts. Others were on the organising team or out competing.

[rally1380]

Ok so i suppose a little bit of a review is the order of the day so that anyone thinking of competing next year (or on a similar event) will know what to expect.

TOUR OF CHESHIRE 2013 REVIEW.....from the back of the field.

The whole thing started just after new year when the reg's and entry opened. I think within the first 12 hours of opening half of the places had already been snapped up and a few days later the event was full with reserves already being taken!! So if you do want to compete, keep an eye on the ToC website near the time and make sure you get an entry in as if you wait, you will be disappointed.

So the entry was in and being complete beginners we were seeded 75 (last) and decided to attend the HRCR rally training day so we could learn techniques that would come in handy for the ToC and other Historic road events.

Training done, and the week of the event was here (and the car was still unfinished!!!!) and final instructions were recieved. This information gave us Grid Ref's for Stop and Give Ways (SGW), special test locations, the transport sections, and also the G.R's for the regualrity section start and finishes. No route information was given at this point so we couldn't go out and practice.

Friday arrived and the car had a few niggles which meant i had to take a day off work to iron out these pesky issues!!! Problems all solved and the car whizzed it's way to scutineering held at Beeston Cattle Market. Noise test passed (88dB) and scrutineer sticker firmly placed on rollcage....'signing on' here we come!

At signing on we got the all important number stickers and the first three regularity route information. This info isn't as simple as following G.R's.....they are more like a criptic trail that you first need to work out the 'code' and then apply it to the map (they can be made up of symbols, spot heights, or colours of road, or even just compass directions). So first three reg's all plotted.....time to try and get some sleep before the big day.


Saturday 2nd March 2013.....the big day! And a blue sky day at that!

As we where seeded 75....this meant we started 75 minutes after car 0's scheduled start time of 08.30am. (lie in then!)

Everyone lined up to start on our assigned minutes......








......here's my drivers eye view of the start......



......and away we all went to the start of Regularity A.


So a short trip south along the A49 saw us arrive at Reg start A and a sad sight met us there. Car 32 (down as a mini clubman on the entry list but i think it was a cooper) had just left the starting line only for the dizzy to go bang just yards from the start! Sat stranded they had to watch everyone go on their way....felt so sorry for them.


Reg A was going very well....sticking to average speeds and keeping penalties to a minimum..... until we some how missed the very last junction and thought that the end of the section was un-manned so decided to stop for some fuel. It was then (when the garage wasn't where it should be on the map) that we realised that we'd mis-read the map so a quick U turn and the right foot was welded to the floor to get back on route. Spotting the missed junction, a quick turn in and more flat out action!!! Superb bit of road and alot more fun taken at more 'fun' speeds rather than the average of 28 mph! We managed to restrict penalties to a minimum and the end marshall smiled at us and said he could hear us coming from miles away!!! Damage limitation done.....off to Special test 1.

This was held across two farms using rough track and muddy and dusty tarmac around cones and barns. We missed a code board, so reversed a little to get it and in doing so incurred a test maximum in penalties.....the morning wasn't going too well!!!!

Tests 2 and 3 where held at Eaton hall - home of the Duke of Westminster. Test 1 was on an old airfield runway. Rough tarmac and gravel made things interesting, but the long straight certainly allowed the mini to stretch its legs and give it the beans!! Test 2 was just a short drive away and was on one of the Dukes rougher estate roads and was a complex run around cones and picking up code boards - managed to pick up a penalty here!

Mid morning coffee break was next (all very civilised!!!) and a chance to reflect on the mornings errors! On leaving here we picked up details for the afternoons regulations so plotting was still to be done!!! Regulation B was next - dropped only 8 seconds at the first control so things were looking better!

Reg B done and on to the disaster that shall be know as Chowley Oak Test 4!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All we need to say here is i clearly don't know my alphabet and got all mixed up and messed up the gate order.....worst still, my family where there and caught it all on video!!!! So picked up a maximum here too!!!! oops!!!.

Reg C next and three controls - dropping only 12 seconds on the first two and 67 seconds on the last (only due to us missing an average speed change!) so things looking ok on the regularity front.

Final test of the morning and the first visit to Beeston Cattle market for test 5. Things just seemed to go right from here on. Beeston market is a rough open area full of pot holes and covered with large stones and gravel......and the water splash! All went well on the first fast section round cones, keeping as much speed through the turns as the loose surface gave heaps of wheel spin when accelerating with standard tyres. Round the back of the cattle shed....through some huge pot holes (glad of raised suspension!) and circle round to pass under covered area to a stop astride (all 4 wheels must stop astride a line)....accelerrate away and hairpin back towards the water....through water and stop astride the finish line....JOB DONE!

Lunch stop......all included in the entry....still very civilised!

Took a little too long to plot the remaining reg sections over lunch and booked out a few seconds late so got 60 second penalty....school boy error (well...school girl (the wife) error but i ain't pointing fingers!!! ha ha )

Regularity D - only dropped 9 seconds

Regularity E - dropped 6 sec, then 17 sec, and then only 1 sec on the final control.....not bad for first event!

Test 6 was a Jogularity style test held in Delamere forest at an old tile works. The route is described by several pages of tulip diagrams and set average speeds, passing through various secret controls to make sure you are on route. The site was pretty badly flooded to one half but was awesome fun and i managed to overtake a Dolomite Sprint which was getting in my way! The route took us round buildings.....through buildings.....up a ramp.....round water.....through water....and down a nice fast piece of gravel track with a perfectly placed hairpin (handbrake turn) at the end. Was an 8 minute test and we only dropped 30 seconds.....good considering i was hooning it round and we didn't take too much interest in the timing on that one!

Next up Delemere test 7. Fast, all out round cones. This time i listened and the route flowed nicely. Over shot one cone that probably cost me 2 seconds but still posted 12th fastest time.


Regularity G next - dropped 14 sec, 12sec, 4sec, 23sec.

Back to Beeston for test 8 - more gravel and stones and getting rougher! could do with gravel tyres now!!!!!

Regularity H - dropped 3 sec, 3 sec, 46 sec (might have missed a speed change!)

Test 9 - Wardle - 21st fastest.

Reg I - almost cleared the first section dropping only 1 second! took wrong turn after that and dropped a wee bit more but hey ho....almost over!

Test 10 - Beeston for the last time - rough and longer than before...great fun and a wicked end!!!


Back to the start venue to drive over the finish ramp and collect a Cheshire Cheese each to reward finishing the 130 mile route.


We didn't realise we had done quite so well until the prize giving actually announced our names. Totally shocked as there were other crews in our class with far more experience and we hadn't had any chance to practice with the tripmeter and i wasn't even 100% sure the car would last all day. In the end the car 'Barry' (long story) performed faultlessly and was a real star and deserved the class win. As Cooperman said above....you get a huge satisfaction from building up a car yourself and it all working and performing so well....its true...i'm massively proud of my achievements with the car ( i ain't a professional mechanic) and hopefully there isn't too much damage underneath.

But the biggest praise and gratitude should got to my navigator (and wife) Jen. We had a couple of hiccups early on, but after them the map reading was perfection and the time lost in the regularity sections was falling as the day progressed so i think once a few more regularities have been done, i reckon we will be competative.


Don't be put off by the big boys at the front of the field who spend £10k on engines....a mini is a great car to have a bash at historic road rallying and with a few more tweeks and a bit practice there is a grey clubman that will be bothering them before too long!!!!

Edited by rally1380, 08 March 2013 - 10:05 PM.

[ba-tat]

What a great review! Thanks for taking the time.

Who wouldn't want to do rallying after that? It's kind of mad because there is so much tension and different things to remember. I have had to learn navigation quickly and nothing prepares you for navigating DURING the rally. So glad you didn't fall out.

That picture of Barry and you going through the water is priceless - a lifetime keeper.

[DEPS]

I agree great review. Interesting and informative. You did really well to stick so close to the average speeds. I would be happy to just get the route right!

I like the idea of getting some instructions the night before, thus allowing time to plot, but can see that you were much more hard pressed when you received the remainder part way through the day. This is where we struggled on the training day, we were too slow and only got about 80% done before we had to set off, but not bad I suppose for my son who is only 13 and had never done anything similar before!

Just got to finish bedroom decorating this weekend so we can get back to rebuilding the clubman!

[Cooperman]

Best advice is to first of all practice plotting map references quickly and accurately until you can plot one every few seconds. The get the compass directions so ingrained that when someone says 'East South East' you automatically know the direction.
Once you have mastered this, get as many old rally route cards and plot the routes whilst sitting at home in comfort until you can do it quickly and accurately.
Then get a local map and go out, ideally at night, get the driver to mark a route which the navigator follows whilst trying to keep to a set average speed to within a few seconds. You need a set of Don Barrow Average Speed Tables to do this.
Use an OS map on every journey on which the navigator is a passenger and read the road from the map all the time.
That way the map and map references become second-nature and the map will 'talk to you'. Learn all the symbols on the map too.
Get another navigator, or even your driver, to do a route card for you, drive to the start, then take the route (as yet unseen) and plot it whilst on the move, keeping to a set average speed and without 'wrong slotting'. Use all the different navigational techniques in normal use (spot heights, straight-line route card, etc.
I hope this helps.

[surfblue63]

If you want to read up on rally navigation there is an excellent book called Rally Navigation by Martin Holmes.

It runs through lots of different techniques, types and styles of navigation. It also suggests what you should take with you when navigating.

There are loads of them on Ebay as teh book has been printed quite a few times. The most up to date version has a Citroen on the cover.

Here's a link to an example on Ebay at the momment.

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item2c6c745d22

I have an old copy and found the book useful for tip with marshalling as well.

Also a good thing to help you with plotting is what is known as a roamer

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item3ccf160baf

It helps with compass points and map referancing when used with OS Land Ranger maps.

Edited by surfblue63, 08 March 2013 - 08:50 PM.

[Cooperman]

The original of that Martin Holmes book had a photo of me at a control on the Welsh International in about 1970! That might well put you off buying the book.
Martin is/was a very good navigator and his book has lots of top tips for both navigating on club rallies and co-driving on internationals.
It's all down to practice and more practice, as with most sports.