63 replies to this topic

[fuzzy-hair-man]

I checked the resistor it says 2.2k ohms and below that either 4XI4 or 4X14, I didn't get it out to measure it.

I think I see the thing you're talking about on the wiring diagram for the blue /black wire I never found it or found out what it is.

Thanks l_Jones I thought that a different port for oil might give lower readings but the usefulness of the guage is going to be more in knowing what's normal for your engine.

[zebigfatman]

Loving the project! will keep an eye on it :)

[fuzzy-hair-man]

Well Spot has been tuned and emissions tested (apparently it doesn't need to be emissions tested anymore as it is ADR 27).

 

Anyway the engine didn't blow up  , the tune was for the emissions test as well as chasing power, the fuel used was 98 octane.

Spot passed the emissions test 1st time, a 2nd test is conducted as they use the first IM240 test to warm up the car and crucially the catalytic converter, so the fact Spot passed on the 1st is a good sign.

The guys at the emissions testing place were really cool and hung round for a while after they closed to have a peek and chat which is pretty cool as they must see some awesome cars as most imports and conversions would need to be tested.

 

Peak power was 59.1 kW @ 5680 RPM (@ the wheels) and peak torque was 109.1nm @ 4379

 

The other figures to compare to are power @ the flywheel but I don't have a definitive means to calculate flywheel power... Adjustments for transmission losses seem to range between 15% and 44% which would give flywheel hp between 91hp and 114hp 

Others suggest there is part fixed losses and part variable with power.

 

The engine spec was chasing torque and drivability over outright power, ie long inlet runners and 4-2-1 exhaust manifold, a 4-1 manifold and shorter inlet runners or bike carbs could see higher hp numbers. Driving it around the complex where it was tuned and it felt like there was quite a bit of torque there. Some cams might be interesting...

 

There's strong torque (reasonably flat the whole way min 95.47Nm and max 109Nm) and is above 102Nm between 4140 and 5448.

4th @ 100km/hr is about 3900rpm so useful for overtaking, 3rd gear will get you to 100 km/hr @ 5500.

 

Dyno graph here:https://goo.gl/photo...UXfAdncnVrd6hT9 (To get the torque figures I had to work backwards from power and RPM)

 

I was impressed by the torque even no where near 4000 where peak should be.

Edited by fuzzy-hair-man, 02 May 2016 - 08:50 AM.

[fuzzy-hair-man]

So the latest on Spot's road to registration:

 

After getting back from tuning and emissions testing I had a few things to tidy up and a small hole in the door that needed welding up which my cousin helped me out with.

 

So off to Ballina (4hrs away) to see the engineer, we arrived down there at 12 and immediately got started with inspection, everything went well other than my tacho acting up when the exhaust was tested for noise, 90db @ 1metre with revs @3000rpm.

 

But....

 

When we went to test the speedo accuracy the engineer reports "it's not working!"

 

Sure enough nothing, pull back the speedo and the speedo cable has snapped Doh!! of all the times for it to happen and all the stupid things to have a problem with.

 

As the micra isn't common the nissan dealer or any wreckers nearby had a micra speedo cable.

Being friday afternoon no one wanted to try welding it up either. 

 

Off to the local wrecker to see what they had and if anything could be made to work. Many of the cables used the same style of ends so one way too long cable and it was back to the engineer to fit it.

We also got a panel beater to have a go at welding the broken cable but it snapped after 5 mins 

 

Thankfully the engineer let us use his hoist to change the cables. At about 4.45 we finally got to test the speedo.... it passed

 

So Spot has her engineering certificate 

 

So now I need a blue slip and then I can finally register Spot.

[fuzzy-hair-man]

It's crummy weather here so I thought I'd update this thread again.

 

Well on Friday Spot eventually went for her Blue Slip (in Australia NSW we have pink, green and blue forms to complete rego) which is sort of like a yearly MOT but they are a bit more thorough when it's first registered.

 

So that all went well and I chased up a greenslip (compulsary third party personal injury insurance) and insurance for Spot.

 

Anyway off I go to get her regoed and first RMS (roads and maritime) can't link the engineer's certificate to the blueslip on their computer, turns out what they thought was a '5' was an 'S' on the chassis number.

 

So go again, now the greenslip has the same 5 instead of an S

 

Meanwhile the rego office have found the engineer's certificate but can't get it from somewhere else on their system.

 

so after getting the run around between the blueslip place (mechanics), the insurer and back to the rego office, I speak to someone else at the insurer and they are able to change the number....

except they change it to an 'F' Arrrgh!!!!

 

Rego office now have the engineer's certificate but the car has previously been regoed with a different chassis number when someone took the old engine number by mistake....So I need to do a statutory declaration that I did in fact buy the car and it's not stolen, but the number on the receipt is incorrect... at this point this all a bit of a joke cause there's 2 rego office staff working on registering Spot and we are wondering what else might pop up.

 

So finally the insurer gets rid of the 'F' and puts an 'S' in there and we are golden, the statutory declaration is done and I've spent 1.5 - 2 hrs in the rego office with 2 staff working on it!!!!!

 

But Spot's registered......Yay!

 

At this point I've got to say the rego office staff were lovely, and very patient and as determined as I was to get Spot through, really they could not have been more helpful...

 

Some general impressions of the engine now that I've been able to drive it on more than just gravel roads where all I get is wheelspin if I floor it.

 

So I'm not sure how much I would need to use first as I can easily and comfortably take off in 2nd.

Anyway Spot is pretty dammed rapid I think... because the torque is pretty much constant it's deceptively fast that and the fact that I only need 1 gear change to get to 100km/hr.

 

Anyway starting off from a standing start I think it's well under 10 sec to 100km/hr or roughly 60m/hr I haven't timed it though so I might be imagining things.

 

Spot seemed to run pretty cool hanging at about 1/2 on the gauge, where 80 degrees is about 3/4s, only a short drive in cool weather though.

 

Handling seems good, new springs and dampers from the rebuild but a lot more comfortable than my green clubman was on old cones.

I've got to find some twisties to give it a good shakedown, I'll do some local stuff until I know everything is good and reliable.

Edited by fuzzy-hair-man, 28 May 2016 - 08:58 AM.

[the general lee]

Fuzzy,

 

Where abouts in Oz are you anyway?

Would love to have the information on the Engineer used as I am considering this conversion myself.

 

Cheers and good luck!

[fuzzy-hair-man]

I'm up in Armidale, northern NSW, but can often be found down in Moss Vale in the Southern Highlands.

 

The engineer I used was Ray Sargeant in Ballina, North Coast, New South Wales, not far south of the Qld border so a fair way from you.

 

Are you on ausmini? there's been a few engine conversions in and around Sydney mostly using the Toyota 4EFTE, the body mods required for the CG are less so I can't see one of those engineers having much of a problem.

 

There isn't heaps of knowledge around even tuning as the CG13DE isn't all that popular so it was the first time the tuner had done anything with the CG13 not that it really mattered much. I used MRC Dyno in Castle Hill NSW, Mark the owner was really good and generous with his time compared to other tuners I called.

Edited by fuzzy-hair-man, 29 May 2016 - 09:57 AM.

[fuzzy-hair-man]

Anyway I've had it out for a couple of drives (including a 80 - 90km trip) and thought I'd give some impressions:

 

• I haven't got any carpet or underfelt on the firewall at the moment or soundproofing in the engine bay and the sound is not bad at all at 100km/h @ ~3000rpm
• Despite the 10's effecting the gearing, 5th is nice, 2nd, 3rd and 4th in about the right place.
• Handling is good, I'm probably still used to driving other cars so not pushing the mini so much but still it seemed nice and predictable and mini-esque...
• Torque curve makes it very easy to drive, hills were gobbled up without much / any change in accelerator position.
• A mild winter's day (good for rock climbing ) and after about 90kms at 100ks and the temp gauge was on about half to two thirds (increases slightly but quickly after a bit of a blast), this is using the super 2 core radiator with a Spal electric fan (I doubt the fan came on as it comes on close to 90 degrees), leave it idling for a while and the fan comes on for a few seconds.
• Oil pressure is high 80 - 90 when cold and revving a bit, but settles to 50psi at 3000rpm cruising and hot. (not sure what's normal for the cg13 but a thinner oil when cold might help)(just checked the micra manual and it reckons 53psi @ 2000rpm when hot so it seems within spec when hot)

 

Unfortunately I lost my front number plate on one of the trips (screws felt OK but weren't good enough it appears, I didn't want to drill new holes...stupid me... :oops: ).

 

A couple of photos:

https://goo.gl/photo...TfNV5UiLmxZQgR7

https://goo.gl/photo...ry61w3bNJJ9FkK9

 

The ratrod look wasn't entirely intended but I'm starting to like it.

Edited by fuzzy-hair-man, 01 June 2016 - 10:45 AM.

[fuzzy-hair-man]

I tried a couple of 0-100 runs (I don't pretend to be good at these things), it turns out taking off in first was better despite the extra gear change, the best I got was 8 sec, which I'm pretty stoked with... seems a pretty good result.

Reportedly a lightened flywheel would reduce this further and there's a lot of meat on the standard flywheel that could come of before you start go all exotic with it...

 

I figure this gives the best unbiased information I can give about the conversion.

 

Lets see if I can link a video:

https://goo.gl/photo...12a6MexsKh67Q47

 

 

You can hear it hit the rev limit at 6400 so the tacho is under-reading so that would probably improve things, I should be shifting at about 6000rpm

 

[the general lee]

I'm up in Armidale, northern NSW, but can often be found down in Moss Vale in the Southern Highlands.

 

The engineer I used was Ray Sargeant in Ballina, North Coast, New South Wales, not far south of the Qld border so a fair way from you.

 

Are you on ausmini? there's been a few engine conversions in and around Sydney mostly using the Toyota 4EFTE, the body mods required for the CG are less so I can't see one of those engineers having much of a problem.

 

There isn't heaps of knowledge around even tuning as the CG13DE isn't all that popular so it was the first time the tuner had done anything with the CG13 not that it really mattered much. I used MRC Dyno in Castle Hill NSW, Mark the owner was really good and generous with his time compared to other tuners I called.

Sounds good Fuzzy Hair,

 

I'm not far from Castle Hill actually! Yeah I'm on Ausmini, but here more often. I keen on a bike engine, but think the first step would be a micra mini. Just need to get the Minister of finance and war to agree..

 

I'll keep following your progress, might catch you around some time,

 

Lee

[fuzzy-hair-man]

 So I went for an outing in Spot on Sunday... you know one of those trips you shouldn't have done...

 

A couple of kms into the trip the car in front flicks up a stone that looked somewhere between a golf and tennis ball sized rock that smacked into the passenger's side front between the headlight and indicator breaking both.           None of my cars have ever been hit by a rock that big but it got Spot!

 

The result a dint about 3cm deep on the seam of the guard and the front panel.

https://goo.gl/photo...fDHYPpU4WC3TWh8

 

 

So, that sucked, the car was still working and I was running late so I kept going to Tamworth (about 100km), car ran faultlessly on the way there.

 

On Monday coming back in cool weather and the temp gauge was edging up to hot, usually if I'm moving it's halfway even though that's a bit cool.

 

So I pull off and there's coolant splashed all over the driver's side inner guard.

 

Check the rad, after it cools and the rad's down, check all the hoses, rad, throttle body, heater etc the O ring that leaked previously, nothing but it had spurted out the guard under pressure

Then finally after jacking it up and taking off the wheel I can see coolant in a hole below the water pump pulley..

 

A quick google and it appears with the engine out and not running the internal seal has hardened and the water-pump has failed.

https://goo.gl/photo...K3kM5kQkchKzL86

 

new water-pump is on it's way, the front will take more effort to get fixed.

 

[fuzzy-hair-man]

It wasn't easy but I managed to get the old water pump out and clean up the mounting face (taking photos to see was clean cause I couldn't see) and the old one back on.

 

All seems to be running correctly the impeller on the new pump is smaller and a cast piece rather than the previous pump which was folded steel.

 

Spot seems to be running a bit hotter than it was before and therefore a little less oil pressure (running a bit hotter so the oil is thinner).

 

The dint as a result of rock was another thing.

 

Headlight, indicator and some new seals for the fuel tank are on order.

 

After talking to the panel beater he was happy if I had a go at it and suggested getting a jack inside the guard to push the dint out.

 

As the dint was right near the front panel / wing seam I made a block of wood with a slot cut for the seam.

 

with no where convenient to jack against I removed the shock absorber and bolted a piece of 2 x 1" metal RHS in to provide a platform for the scissor jack.

 

Kind of dodgy as it might sound it worked amazingly well and the dint just pushed out remarkably easily, a couple of little creases that tapped out with a hammer and dolly..

 

It still needs a bit of work but apart from a 5 - 10 mm bit where rock hit you can't really see anything so I'm well chuffed.

[fuzzy-hair-man]

So I've been using Spot quite a bit with no troubles at all, I'm thinking I'll have to get a different Smith temp gauge as at normal operating temp it's reading 3/4 on the gauge which makes me nervous and means that there's relatively little movement for me to spot before trouble starts.

The current gauge is a 0 -100 degrees C with the middle at about 50, Smiths have a gauge where middle is about 90...

 

But after going for a holiday to the UK, Sweden and US I'm near broke so have to work for a bit.

 

The other thing making me broke is  I'm in the process of making a a trailer for Spot, it was only $400 but I've had to replace the axle, brake calipers and rotors, springs(the shackle kit cost as much as new springs), new wheels and tires and brake master cylinder which is quite a bit more than I was hoping.

The idea is to be able to tow Spot behind my Sprinter motorhome conversion, proper grey nomad(Aussie retires doing laps of Australia in their caravan / motorhome) style... not that I'm that old yet. 

[fuzzy-hair-man]

So I've been trying to avoid starting a conversion or restoration on one of my other cars but my brain needs something to think about.
 
Some time ago I was reading the Issue 214 of Mini Magazine specifically the section where Keith talks about rear beam axle suspensions and the mini's skewed roll.
 
Skewed roll because the rear roll centre is at ground height where as the front is several inches above ground level, ordinarily the roll axis for most FWDs (a line joining the front and rear roll centres) would slope downwards towards the front, the mini's does the opposite and slopes upwards.
 
The roll moment (distance and therefore leverage the centre of gravity has on the roll centre) is quite large meaning the rear suspension allows quite a bit of roll which through twisting the body lifts the inside front wheel loosing traction and increasing understeer.
 
The rear beam axle fixes this by moving the rear roll centre to a point about of the middle of the wheels (Vizard's white book puts the optimal above at 13 - 14 inches).
 
Trouble is a rear beam axle involves pretty extensive modifications to the car and the loss of the entire boot, neither of which I'm keen on.
You could say fit a rear anti-roll bar or hydro bumpstops (and a old CCC article by Andy Dawson recommends this) but anti-roll bars work by making one end grip less rather than fixing the problem.
I believe that rear anti-roll bars on mini's are pretty effective as they stop the back roll (also reducing rear grip) which prevents the roll being transferred to the front meaning more grip overall.
 
I got off track...
So I was wondering if there was a suspension design that could raise the rear roll centre but not result in the loss of the entire boot?
 
My answer so far is semi trailing arms.
 
In suspension literature these seem to have gotten a bit of a bad rap, it seems Porshe and BMW had some problems with them as they use rubber / nolathane bushes that had some compliance under braking in a turn this resulted in toe out on the outside rear wheel which meant dramatic and sudden oversteer AKA a spin.
 
OK that doesn't sound good but hear me out.
 
There's some good things too:

• As a semi trailing arm compresses we get negative camber gain but without the downsides of static negative camber.
• Semi trailing arms may fit without modification to the body
• they may be able to be designed to use existing trailing arm shafts, subframe mountings, and even possibly the rubber cones!
• Most importantly as the minis trailing arms don't use rubber bushes there's no give so the above problems with Porshes and Beemers don't come into it.

 
Here's a page that describes how to find the roll centre for semi trailing arms.
http://flyingpigpedi...ing arms images
 
 
It's relatively easy to imagine a setup that gets the roll centre at a point halfway between the ground and the centre of the wheel (a line drawn between the pivots intersects the wheel contact patch) but getting it higher than this is more difficult.
 
It has been suggested that you don't want to go further than this as the more sweep angle (angle back from a true trailing arm) the greater the tendency to behave like a swing arm (used by early VW beetles) which causes jacking where the suspension tucks under the car.
from http://www.rqriley.com/suspensn.htm

 
The instantaneous center is normally located no closer than the centerline of the opposite wheel. A closer location will produce wheel movements that emulate the swing-axle, along with the negative attributes of tuck-under and unfavorably large camber change.
 
 

 
Further raising the roll centre can be partly achieved by lowering the outboard pivot or raising the inboard pivot of the trailing arm but this increases 'roll steer effects'
 
again from http://www.rqriley.com/suspensn.htm
 
 

 
Roll-steer effects are at a minimum when the arm axis is parallel to the ground and increase when the inboard end is raised or the outboard end is lowered. 
 
 

 
So what do you think?
 
There's a high likelyhood nothing will happen but it's not outside the realms of possibilty.
 
Is there no point looking to raise the roll centre unless I can get it to the hub centre or above?
Vizard suggests that lower roll centres suffered from 'bad handling' and needed very stiff springs to solve the problem.
 
It occurs to me that part of the behaviour of swing axles was because of their high roll centre and if we are aiming for a high roll centre we can afford to use a greater sweep angle than normally advised?
 
Anyone with any experience out there or can point me to some further reading.

Edited by fuzzy-hair-man, 12 April 2017 - 07:24 AM.

[fuzzy-hair-man]

So there's been a little movement with Spot.

 

But to explain Spot was living at my parent's place Armidale whilst I was living in Moss vale these are about 600km apart which partly explains the slow progress of my build...

 

Anyway a friend offered to house Spot for me which means I could bring her down the Southern Highlands and get to drive her more often. 

 

I also managed to score some old Lucas SLD/SFT 576 spotlights (2 flood pattern and 2 spot pattern), so I went up and made a light bar for the lights and wired them up. Sorry no photos at the moment... soon but they look really good and in keeping with a barn find rally car look.

 

I was able to get halogen globes for these old lights from: www.classicandvintagebulbs.com/ in Adelaide, so the lights are bright and really quite useful for spotting kangaroos and wombats at night around here.

 

A new temperature gauge was ordered to replace the old one which read high, which also proved to read incorrectly 

 

Anyway this was solved by adding a trimpot in series with the gauge until it read correctly (using nistune to tell me the temp) and then a 33 ohm resistor was added as a more permanent solution (still unsure if I can be bothered sorting it more than it is at the moment).

 

Because I was dubious about the temperature gauge I have also added a LED when the electric fan turns on, so if it's on and the temperature keeps going up I know I need to back off or to pull off. Remember Spot had a 600km trip ahead of her at 100 - 110km/hr.

 

What the LED showed was quite interesting, in the first 100kms or so the light hardly came on, once or twice for seconds particularly when following trucks, as the afternoon progressed and it got hotter and more of the car got hot it stayed on longer, particularly at 110km/r freeway speeds. The fan was always able to bring the temperature down but it was taking longer to do so.

 

A coupe of days later when I finished the journey (I had a stop off at my sister's) it did the same but losing a couple of degrees of temperature in the afternoon made all the difference and the fan didn't really turn on even with some longer hills and 110km/hr.

 

So I figure the radiator is close to the cooling required but it could do with that little bit more so the fan is running less often and I have a bit more up my sleeve for hard driving or when summer comes.

 

Currently thinking of getting a ARA4441 aluminium minispares radiator (currently the copper ARA4442) which it seems should be up to the job, I don't think there's anything wrong with the engine it's just the mini's cooling arrangements assume there's a mechanical fan driving air through the guard all the time and without this it could use a bit more cooling capacity.

 

I could just run it as is and have the fan run a bit more but as I said I'd like that bit extra up my sleeve or I could add a motorcycle radiator behind the grill but it's a messy solution. Any thoughts?

It's interesting to note that without the LED when the fan comes on I'd have little or no idea how often it was coming on as at high speed or revs you can't hear it.