42 replies to this topic

[TopGearRules]

Hi there, I havent mastered the trick of heel and toe yet, so I'm just wondering what is the best way of changing down when traffic in front of me is slowing down. I normally single clutch where I press the clutch in, blip the throttle (rev match), change down and depressed the clutch.... Is this the right way of doing it or would just simply changing down without rev matching be a better way or not ruining the clutch/gears?? I always thought that rev matching puts less strain on the gearbox but I've never really asked anyone if it was true or not.

 

Thanks, Al 

 

EDIT: I think I may of confused my question by saying 'using gears for braking' (didn't mean) instead of generally slowing down(say going into third <30mph), which the latter I meant    Whenever I do brake I always use the actual brakes instead of using gears.

Edited by TopGearRules, 19 May 2013 - 08:14 PM.

[jmmini]

Heel and toe is more for racing etc when braking/ cornering, it's matching trans speed to engine speed. I find that just using clutch and downshifting is fine in traffic

[Gr4h4m]

I think your talking about double-de-clutch process.

 

Clutch in

Out of higher gear into neutral

Clutch out

Blip Throttle

Clutch in

Into lower gear

clutch out.

[mab01uk]

New drivers these days are taught to use their brakes for slowing down rather than gears, then select a lower gear and not to use engine braking effect with gearbox to slow down. This is partly because many modern cars have little engine braking effect and because modern brakes are much more efficient than in the 'old' days......also brakes are much cheaper to replace than worn gearboxes!

[AVV IT]

As above "changing down the box" hasn't been taught by driving schools since the eighties. For the best part of the last thirty years, it's been a case of "the gears are for going and the brakes are for slowing". The other issue is that using you brakes alerts drivers behind you that you are slowing down via your brake lights, using the gears to slow doesn't do this, so you're more likely to be involved in a rear end collision if you change down the box to slow down. 

 

That aside though, I think what you're referring to by "rev matching" is the "sustained rev gear change technique", which is now the accepted gear change technique, as taught by advanced driving schools. It has pretty much replaced the "double de-clutching technique" these days, as it is easier to learn and perfect. In modern syncro gearboxes neither technique do an awful lot for vehicle wear/sympathy, they are more techniques designed at perfecting smoother gear changes.

Edited by AVV IT, 19 May 2013 - 07:55 PM.

[mini=love]

Haha heel and toe on public roads. To save your gearbox double the clutch on change down.

[mike.]

I've got into the habit of rev matching all the time now which is fine for slowing in traffic like you say or just general slowing down. It puts less strain on the transmission, but double de clutching is the way forth to truly preserve the gearbox if yours in worn. 

 

Also, rev matching with a strong clutch will increase thrust washer wear, as your revving the engine with the clutch depressed - With double de clutching your off you clutch when you rev. 

 

Heel and toe is a nice skill to have for spirited driving on lanes and things and track driving too. I find it easiest in the mini, as the when braking the throttle is at a perfect height to be blipped by the side of your foot. Also the pedals are close together and the brake isn't so sensitive as modern cars. When I try heel & toe in modern cars I can't quite perfect it because the brake is so sensitive I end up braking harder when blipping the throttle so its not so smooth.

[TopGearRules]

As above "changing down the box" hasn't been taught by driving schools since the eighties. For the best part of the last thirty years, it's been a case of "the gears are for going and the brakes are for slowing". The other issue is that using you brakes alerts drivers behind you that you are slowing down via your brake lights, using the gears to slow doesn't do this, so you're more likely to be involved in a rear end collision if you change down the box to slow down. 

 

That aside though, I think what you're referring to by "rev matching" is the "sustained rev gear change technique", which is now the accepted gear change technique, as taught by advanced driving schools. It has pretty much replaced the "double de-clutching technique" these days, as it is easier to learn and perfect. In modern syncro gearboxes neither technique do an awful lot for vehicle wear/sympathy, they are more techniques designed at perfecting smoother gear changes.

 

Thanks for all your replies! I think I may of confused my question by saying 'using gears for braking' (didn't mean) instead of generally slowing down(say going into third <30mph), which the latter I meant   Whenever I do brake I always use the actual brakes instead of using gears (I do see people using their gears to brake and its a stupid was to drive since their rear lights never go on!). I prefer rev matching since it doesn't jerk when you do change down; I will try and change to double de-clutching since it seems to be the best way of preserving the gearbox. I think I will leave the heel and toe technique for when I'm on a track (obviously not in my 998 mini lol). Also thanks mike for telling me about the thrust washer wear when single clutching.

 

Many thanks, Al 

Edited by TopGearRules, 19 May 2013 - 08:13 PM.

[Guess-Works.com]

If you drive it like it was stolen expect it to break....

 

drive it sympathetically and with respect then it'll last...

[TopGearRules]

If you drive it like it was stolen expect it to break....

 

drive it sympathetically and with respect then it'll last...

 

Very true! I love my mini, and I like to think it gets pampered lol

[AVV IT]

I will try and change to double de-clutching since it seems to be the best way of preserving the gearbox. 

 

 

Performed properly on a classic car it will, but performed incorrectly it will just lead to premature clutch and gearbox wear. In short not really the sort of technique that you really want to learn whilst using the relatively fragile classic mini gearbox. If you really want to learn the technique, then practice on a more robust modern car first, or ideally take a few lessons from an advanced driving school or track driving school and get them to teach you how to do the technique properly and preferably in their car!!

 

Otherwise you might end up putting some business guessworks's way a lot sooner than you'd planned!! 

[Guess-Works.com]

I did restrain from including my phone number with expectation of a call in the near future...

[mike.]

Well when I double clutch I find the gear goes in easier, no jerking when the clutch is released and the whole change just seems slicker and smoother. Hopefully this means i'm doing it right. It would be nightmare to find i've been killing my gearbox for years haha

[TopGearRules]

 

I will try and change to double de-clutching since it seems to be the best way of preserving the gearbox. 

 

 

Performed properly on a classic car it will, but performed incorrectly it will just lead to premature clutch and gearbox wear. In short not really the sort of technique that you really want to learn whilst using the relatively fragile classic mini gearbox. If you really want to learn the technique, then practice on a more robust modern car first, or ideally take a few lessons from an advanced driving school or track driving school and get them to teach you how to do the technique properly and preferably in their car!!

 

Otherwise you might end up putting some business guessworks's way a lot sooner than you'd planned!! 

 

 

Ahahaha yepp I don't really fancy buying a brand new gearbox every time I change down! If im honest I single clutch rev match usually when I change done from 4th (30mph) to 3rd (less than 30). I've done this from when I passed my test (nearly 5,000 miles) and I've had no issues touch wood. Al 

[AVV IT]

I did restrain from including my phone number with expectation of a call in the near future...

 

Hmmm yes, some might say that any advice you give here could be deemed as a conflict of interests!!