12 replies to this topic

[daenesh]

hey guys so been wondering what the best ZDDP engine oil in the market currently.. some have said its castrol 20/50 and others have said VR1.. any inputs would be appreciated.. thanks

[Rob Gavin]

^{don't know about the best but I'm using Millers CTV}

[Cooperman]

In my 1964 'S' I always use Valvoline VR-1 20w50.
On non-competition Minis I usually use Castrol Classic 20w50.

[jaydee]

Castrol XL classic is POOR of ZDDP, its just at 700 ppm while millers and valvoline are above 1400 ppm

You'll find the highest content in comma SONIC (not classic!!) for which its lates spec sheet quotes 2000 ppm

[daenesh]

great stuff guys.. ive heard that the minimum should be in the range of 1400-1600 ppm and while i believe millers is one of the best there are unheard brands such as Sonic which has higher ppm levels.. is it really a big deal in cars that have been run-in and are now up to normal operating conditions? 

[jaydee]

The main concern is that flat tappet engines are harsh on cam and followers, and the mini engine shares oil with the gearbox, that needs oil with high EP addictives but its not tolerant to moly and ptfe compounds. Thats why you need ZDDP and why some modern oils are not good for the mini. While 800 ppm is still safe for a standard engine, around 1400 ppm is proven to be best by oil engineering companies. They put a limit of 700-800 ppm because of pollution and its safe for the cat converter life but still offering a decent engine protection. 

Side note, on the new SM and SN grade theres no 600 ppm limit for 40 and 50 weight oils and most of them are at about 1000-1200 ppm zddp in their formulation. Valvoline VR1 20w50 is SM and has over 1400 ppm zddp.

[daenesh]

excellent stuff.. now i definitely know what kind of oils ill be looking for in the future.. the only question is if i can get it in my country..haha

[Dan]

  I'm not sure where you got the info about Castrol XL from Jaydee, but I'd just like to point out that Castrol actually do not publish the specifications for their additive packs because they believe this is information worth protecting (slightly weird I know).  Also any time I personally have seen any information on-line that claimed to describe the makeup of Castrol oils, which usually shows them in a bad light, I have been able to trace the original document back to a competitor oil company.  There is a ludicrous chart floating around the internet that shows Castol XL to have 0.08 ppm ZDDP which is sourced from someone who doesn't understand what they have read.  Castrol are legally required to list certain information on the makeup of their products, and state that XL contains 0.08% by weight of zinc.  That's not in PPM and doesn't describe the complete ZDDP compound but someone has clearly used this figure in their chart.  In fact without knowing more about the density of everything in the oil you wouldn't be able to accurately convert that into PPM at all.  I do know from another forum that when asked a direct question about their oils, Castrol replied that their classic products in the US (a different range than we get here in the UK) contain around 1400 PPM of ZDDP, beyond that there seems to be no concrete info.

 

  It should also be remembered that too much ZDDP is a bad thing and will cause damage to the engine.

[Dan]

  Actually having read about various conversations with oil companies on other classic forums, it's apparent that in the '50s the oil chemists didn't give the actual amount of ZDDP too much thought.  It was simply something they thought would work, and they stuck some in.  Much the same as lead in fuel, and all the lead, zinc and phosphorous coming out of all the exhausts in the world has made several generations less intelligent.

  At the time the hardening of the parts was designed for the oils available, rather than the oils being developed for specific applications.  This change in thinking has been one of the major advances in engineering that has lead to longer lasting engines.  Remember that when the A series was originally in development, oil that wasn't just castor oil was a fairly new development.

[racingbob]

when I rang Castrol what I use he said theres plenty enough in the oil for your mini engine

[racingbob]

 

when I rang Castrol what I use he said theres plenty enough in the oil for your mini engine

 

Same thing they told me, enough ! When I asked for a more specific number turns out it's 8% or 800ppm...........

 

Which incidentally isn't actually enough............

 

oh well better to change to valvaline next time

[Captain Mainwaring]

 

when I rang Castrol what I use he said theres plenty enough in the oil for your mini engine

 

Same thing they told me, enough ! When I asked for a more specific number turns out it's 8% or 800ppm...........

 

Which incidentally isn't actually enough............

 

 

 

Not that it matters, but 8% is not 800 parts per million.

Edited by Captain Mainwaring, 26 July 2013 - 12:25 AM.

[daenesh]

wow great great stuff.. ive widened my knowledge by just reading all this.. i have to say a big thank you to all that have posted here and if you have more please feel free to share.. im reading :)