Javascript Disabled Detected

You currently have javascript disabled. Several functions may not work. Please re-enable javascript to access full functionality.

Rear Brake Drum Getting Hot

Started by Al-man , Aug 04 2013 02:26 PM

Best Answer Al-man , 14 August 2013 - 07:35 PM

brakes

sounds like to me all of the cables hav goten seized and not only that maybe the brakes are adjusted too tight on that side jack the whole lot up at the rear end wheels of the deck   try and turn the wheals   you should barley hear the shoes rubbing   if too stiff slacken them off do one side at a time now stab your foot on the brake pedal this centralises the shoes on that drum now check again if there is no noise / stiffness in rotating the drum adjust the shoe up one notch do that until you get a slight noise on the drum from the shoe both sides to be done like that with the same stabbing of the foot on the brake pedal to centralising the shoes this is important front wheals should be done the same   not if you have discs     BUT BEFORE DOING ALL THAT free all cables off   important   get inside the drums and free all the levers off especially the adjuster   (drop of wd 40 on the linkage in the drum )   do this sparingly   before fitting the drums back on   take the glaze off the shoes with a piece of sandpaper ,,, then on the edge of the brake shoe take the sharpness of the edge just a tad   all 8 shoes

keep the vehicle jacked up hand brake time     operate the handbrake   hard   now go and check the rear drums again with the handbrake off check that that both drums revolve freely     if one sticks on   you have a problem with the cable go over the cable and check the central pull yoke this is the most important part of the hand brake system if the cable is not free to move in the yoke things get a little jammed up and do not release propereley (sticky)   through the lack of use and with plenty of moisture around and road dirt this tends to happen   same happens to drums   DONE THAT   now try the handbrake again   pull the handbrake up and relax the brake check the drum   should have a tad swishing noise coming from the drum   if both sides are the same   ITS FIXED   hand brake adjust the slack on the cable lever should be about   3 to 4 notches   make sure there is oile on the handbrake linkages and also where the cable fits into the lever hand brake don't half do the job to doo all this is a couple of hours work   through the lack of use and dampness and rain   this sort of silly thing happens do not overadjust the whole system years ago this sort of thing seizing rarely happened    these vehicles had daily use and all those parts were in constant use   any way I am going to sod off now

               baldrick ?

Thanks for your advice, but if you read my first post on this thread you will see that I mentioned that the handbrake was not sticking and the wheels spun freely. I have owned and worked on Mini's since the late 60's so realise that that seized cable quadrants on the radius arms and seized linkages are a common problem on Mini's. In this instance I had tried the usual things and hadn't come across this problem before, where the wheels spun freely with the vehicle jacked up, but one side became hot after a short journey. I found changing various components had made no difference....until today

Ok Captain, well spotted, i missed the part no quote. So that is the first problem, what the OP described as taper roller were in fact cylindrical (the NP584547) and would never work as intended. Another lesson in only using genuine parts from trusted sources.
Yes they did also use ball bearings, which obviously take radial and hurst loads.
(As the Dad's army character Captain Mainwaring used to say "very good chaps, I wondered when one of you was going to spot that!"

Sorry that's my fault, I made a typing error I had quoted NP548547 the part number was NP548549 :shy:

Just a quick alternative to the wheel bearing issue.....

Since getting my Elf back n the road, I've noticed a clunk as I've first pulled away, but not spotted an issue.

MOT'd last week and got an advise on brakes binding. Took it for a run the other weekend, and you could feel the binding as you coasted up to the roundabout.

Anyway it turns out that one of the front brake hoses is knackered internally. The clunking was the brakes releasing as i reversed off the drive, but the damage has worsened so that now when the brake is applied, the fluid is trapped in the hose and the brake won't release.
Could be that you're at the intermittent stage where the brake binds, but jacking the car up releases the restriction in the hose.

As Jono_h suggested the fault turned out to be a partialy collapsed brake hose. I replaced it today and now the wheel no longer gets hot...Thanks Jono_h and everyone else who has contributed to helping me sort out this problem

Go to the full post

Next

Please log in to reply

39 replies to this topic

#1 Al-man

Learner Driver

Noobies
10 posts

Posted 04 August 2013 - 02:26 PM

Hi,

I am having a problem with the rear nearside brake on my 1978 Mini Van, the wheel & brake drum get very hot after just a few miles, while the offside drum is just warm. I only noticed this recently although they may have been like this for some time. I cover about 3000 miles each year (the vans only on the road during the summer) and I check the brakes before the each MOT. I had noticed before that the shoes were wearing more on the nearside, but as both the wheel cylinder and handbrake cable showed no signs of sticking and the wheel spun freely, I assumed maybe the shoes were softer on that side.

After I noticed the drum was getting hot, I replaced the handbrake linkage inside the drum, wheel cylinder, and brake shoes plus the wheel bearing (which was a little noisey). I slackened off the handbrake before adjusting the back brakes, then adjusted it to hold on the 3rd notch, making sure the wheels spun freely with the handbrake released.

The wheel & drum still get very hot on the nearside after a short journey, but don't smell of overheating brake shoes, otherwise I would have noticed this before.

Any advice on what the problem could be, would be appreciated. :proud:

Thanks

Alan

Back to top

#2 KernowCooper

Sparkie

Mini Docs
7,847 posts

Name: Dave
Location: The South West
Local Club: Kernow Mini Club

Posted 04 August 2013 - 05:10 PM

Still got be be friction caused by contact between the shoe and drum, or a failing dry wheel bearing, there the only two sources of friction that could cause heat.

If your sure the quadrant free on the trailing arm and the internal pivots free and not seized and the handbrakes not dragging and you cylinders pistons are free to return, then back off the adjuster and retest and see if its heat transfer from the hub bearing.

Back to top

#3 Spud_133

mmm potato and cheese....

Members
1,689 posts

Location: Narrrrfolk
Local Club: C&T Classics

Posted 04 August 2013 - 06:43 PM

It could be the handbrake cable is nipped up when the wheel is on the ground and you cannot see this when its jacked up, how easy is it to push?

Back to top

#4 Al-man

Learner Driver

Noobies
10 posts

Posted 04 August 2013 - 10:09 PM

Still got be be friction caused by contact between the shoe and drum, or a failing dry wheel bearing, there the only two sources of friction that could cause heat.

If your sure the quadrant free on the trailing arm and the internal pivots free and not seized and the handbrakes not dragging and you cylinders pistons are free to return, then back off the adjuster and retest and see if its heat transfer from the hub bearing.

Thanks, everything you mention is free, so I will do as you suggest and try it with the brake adjuster backed off. The new wheel bearing is the tapered (sp) type with extended inner races replacing the spacer. I packed both bearings with grease, but when I tightened the hub nut to the specified torque, the hub was too stiff to turn. So I had to back it off until it was fairly free to turn with no free play at the wheel. If the drum still gets hot after backing off the brake adjustment, maybe I will need to back off the hub nut a little more ?

Spud_133, thanks for your suggestion, but the van rolls easily on the ground.

Alan

Back to top

#5 Captain Mainwaring

Camshaft & Stage Two Head

Banned
1,712 posts

Location: Indonesia
Local Club: Surabaya Mini Club

Posted 05 August 2013 - 04:05 AM

Still got be be friction caused by contact between the shoe and drum, or a failing dry wheel bearing, there the only two sources of friction that could cause heat.

If your sure the quadrant free on the trailing arm and the internal pivots free and not seized and the handbrakes not dragging and you cylinders pistons are free to return, then back off the adjuster and retest and see if its heat transfer from the hub bearing.

Thanks, everything you mention is free, so I will do as you suggest and try it with the brake adjuster backed off. The new wheel bearing is the tapered (sp) type with extended inner races replacing the spacer. I packed both bearings with grease, but when I tightened the hub nut to the specified torque, the hub was too stiff to turn. So I had to back it off until it was fairly free to turn with no free play at the wheel. If the drum still gets hot after backing off the brake adjustment, maybe I will need to back off the hub nut a little more ?

Spud_133, thanks for your suggestion, but the van rolls easily on the ground.

Alan

If the bearing spacers were correct, you shouldn't, within reason, be able to over tighten them.

Back to top

#6 Yoda

Camshaft & Stage Two Head

Traders
1,958 posts

Location: Dartford, Kent
Local Club: Medway mini club

Posted 05 August 2013 - 04:24 AM

If the bearing spacers were correct, you shouldn't, within reason, be able to over tighten them.

The new wheel bearing is the tapered (sp) type with extended inner races replacing the spacer.

Back to top

#7 Captain Mainwaring

Camshaft & Stage Two Head

Banned
1,712 posts

Location: Indonesia
Local Club: Surabaya Mini Club

Posted 05 August 2013 - 04:33 AM

If the bearing spacers were correct, you shouldn't, within reason, be able to over tighten them.

The new wheel bearing is the tapered (sp) type with extended inner races replacing the spacer.

Same meat, different gravy - the bearings have "built in" spacers.

Back to top

#8 KernowCooper

Sparkie

Mini Docs
7,847 posts

Name: Dave
Location: The South West
Local Club: Kernow Mini Club

Posted 05 August 2013 - 10:11 AM

So if those inbuilt spacers were correct then by applying 50ft lbs or 150ft lbs then the nearing should not go tight and require backing off on the torque to enable the wheel to rotate without binding of the bearings. By backing off the torque implies the inbuilt spacers are to short or the outer races are mot seated fully.

I'd be investigating why and not reducing the bearing torque to see why there not rotating when torqued up.

Back to top

#9 Al-man

Learner Driver

Noobies
10 posts

Posted 05 August 2013 - 11:08 PM

I will be having another look at the brakes tomorrow (too wet today), if backing off the brake doesn't work, then it looks like the built in spacers are to narrow. I have replaced rear bearings on Mini's before and never had any problems, but this is the first time I have used tapered bearings.

I looked at a couple of other Mini forums today and this seems to happened to other people. Apparently some bearing kits are not manufactured correctly, so some owners have used a thin shim between the spacers, some have tightened them like an adjustable tapered bearing, while others have tried a different manufacturer. I wonder if the original ball bearing type are still available, as they would be my preferred option :mmkay:

Back to top

#10 Captain Mainwaring

Camshaft & Stage Two Head

Banned
1,712 posts

Location: Indonesia
Local Club: Surabaya Mini Club

Posted 06 August 2013 - 12:08 AM

So if those inbuilt spacers were correct then by applying 50ft lbs or 150ft lbs then the nearing should not go tight and require backing off on the torque to enable the wheel to rotate without binding of the bearings. By backing off the torque implies the inbuilt spacers are to short or the outer races are mot seated fully.

I'd be investigating why and not reducing the bearing torque to see why there not rotating when torqued up.

Sheet of paper between the races to start with......

See what you have.

Back to top

#11 Al-man

Learner Driver

Noobies
10 posts

Posted 06 August 2013 - 06:35 PM

Backed off brake adjuster, so no contact between brake shoes and drum, but drum still very hot after short journey. Removed hub and re-checked that outer bearing cases were seated correctly then checked for gap between inner bearing spacers with feeler gauge. There is a 6 thou gap when inner races are pressed together by hand, so it looks like a manufacture fault.

It seems I will need another set of tapered bearings from a manufacture that are known to be ok. Looking at other posts on here, probably Timken bearings would be the ones to buy. Unless someone knows where I can buy the old ball bearing type, which should be ok and probably cheaper too :shifty:

Back to top

#12 KernowCooper

Sparkie

Mini Docs
7,847 posts

Name: Dave
Location: The South West
Local Club: Kernow Mini Club

Posted 06 August 2013 - 11:27 PM

So the space between the inbuilt spacers is in effect putting excess preload on the bearing when tighted up. There have been reports of fronts having the same problems maybe its time to put some timkens in, not sure you can get the old type anymore?

Back to top

#13 Captain Mainwaring

Camshaft & Stage Two Head

Banned
1,712 posts

Location: Indonesia
Local Club: Surabaya Mini Club

Posted 07 August 2013 - 01:18 AM

You could alternatively as an exercise shim the races apart.

Before everyone jumps on the comment - the OP could hardly do any worse than the manufacturer did and possibly a great deal better.

Back to top

#14 Yoda

Camshaft & Stage Two Head

Traders
1,958 posts

Location: Dartford, Kent
Local Club: Medway mini club

Posted 07 August 2013 - 04:26 AM

Actually, i wont jump LOL, i think it is good engineering practice to take up the slack with shims as once it is set correctly and torqued up nothing can move! No different really to steering swivels. plus it is on the rear and not subject to the same types of load as the front wheel bearings. I would have no qualms doing this, at least it is not like one i car i worked on, i found NO spacer in the front bearings and tinfoil packed in the rear one side. No wonder the guy came to me saying " i dont understand what the noise is, i put new wheel bearing in all round last week"

DOH!

Back to top

#15 Fossy313

Super Mini Mad

Members
583 posts

Location: Jersey
Local Club: Mini Club Jersey

Posted 07 August 2013 - 08:34 AM

Al, did you get these bearings from minisport by any chance??? I had exactly the same problem as you, and couldn't tighten the hub nut up to the required torque!!!, its the manufacture mate, the hub nuts needs to be done up toe the specified pre load, although the split pin will stop the nut from turning it is very very bad practice(one i did not want t out the other people in my car, especially my son at risk), I ordered some timken ones from somerford minis and they worked fine

Take a read of this..

http://www.theminifo...dhub-wont-move/