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Rear Brake Drum Getting Hot


Best Answer Al-man , 14 August 2013 - 07:35 PM

brakes  

sounds like to me all of the cables hav goten seized  and not only that  maybe the brakes are adjusted too tight on that side  jack the whole lot up at the rear end  wheels of the deck   try and turn the wheals   you should barley hear the shoes rubbing   if too stiff slacken  them off  do one side at a time  now stab your foot on the brake pedal  this centralises the shoes on that  drum  now check again  if there is no noise / stiffness  in rotating the drum  adjust the shoe up one notch  do that  until you get a slight noise on the drum from the shoe  both sides to be done like that  with the same stabbing of the foot on the brake pedal  to centralising the shoes this is important  front wheals should be done the same   not if you have discs     BUT BEFORE DOING ALL THAT  free all cables off   important   get inside the drums  and free all the levers off  especially  the adjuster   (drop of wd 40  on the linkage in the drum )   do this sparingly   before  fitting  the drums back on   take the glaze off the shoes  with a piece of sandpaper ,,, then on the edge of the brake shoe  take the sharpness of the edge just a tad   all 8 shoes

 

keep the vehicle jacked up  hand brake time     operate the handbrake   hard   now go and check the rear drums again  with the handbrake off check that that both drums revolve freely     if one sticks on   you have a problem with the cable  go over the cable and check the central pull yoke  this is the most important part of the hand brake system if the cable is not free to move in the yoke  things get a little jammed up  and do not release propereley  (sticky)   through the lack of use and with plenty of moisture around  and road dirt this tends to happen   same happens to drums   DONE THAT   now try the handbrake again   pull the handbrake up  and relax the brake  check the drum   should have a tad swishing noise coming from the drum   if both sides are the same   ITS FIXED   hand brake adjust  the slack on the cable lever  should be about   3 to 4 notches   make sure there is oile on the handbrake linkages  and also where the cable fits into the  lever hand brake  don't half do the job  to doo all this is a couple of hours work   through the lack of use and dampness and rain   this sort of silly thing happens  do not overadjust  the whole system  years ago this sort of thing seizing  rarely  happened    these vehicles had daily use  and all those parts were in constant use   any way  I am going to sod off now

               baldrick ?

 

Thanks for your advice, but if you read my first post on this thread you will see that I mentioned that the handbrake was not sticking and the wheels spun freely. I have owned and worked on Mini's since the late 60's so realise that that seized cable quadrants on the radius arms and seized linkages are a common problem on Mini's. In this instance I had tried the usual things and hadn't come across this problem before, where the wheels spun freely with the vehicle jacked up, but one side became hot after a short journey. I found changing various components had made no difference....until today

 

Ok Captain, well spotted, i missed the part no quote. So that is the first problem, what the OP described as taper roller were in fact cylindrical (the NP584547) and would never work as intended. Another lesson in only using genuine parts from trusted sources.
Yes they did also use ball bearings, which obviously take radial and hurst loads.
(As the Dad's army character Captain Mainwaring used to say "very good chaps, I wondered when one of you was going to spot that!" ;-)

 

 Sorry that's my fault, I made a typing error I had quoted NP548547 the part number was NP548549 :shy:

 

Just a quick alternative to the wheel bearing issue.....

Since getting my Elf back n the road, I've noticed a clunk as I've first pulled away, but not spotted an issue.

MOT'd last week and got an advise on brakes binding. Took it for a run the other weekend, and you could feel the binding as you coasted up to the roundabout.

Anyway it turns out that one of the front brake hoses is knackered internally. The clunking was the brakes releasing as i reversed off the drive, but the damage has worsened so that now when the brake is applied, the fluid is trapped in the hose and the brake won't release.
Could be that you're at the intermittent stage where the brake binds, but jacking the car up releases the restriction in the hose.

 

As Jono_h suggested the fault turned out to be a partialy collapsed brake hose. I replaced it today and now the wheel no longer gets hot...Thanks Jono_h  and everyone else who has contributed to helping me sort out this problem :D

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#31 Captain Mainwaring

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 08:59 AM

Ok Captain, well spotted, i missed the part no quote. So that is the first problem, what the OP described as taper roller were in fact cylindrical (the NP584547) and would never work as intended. Another lesson in only using genuine parts from trusted sources.
Yes they did also use ball bearings, which obviously take radial and hurst loads.
(As the Dad's army character Captain Mainwaring used to say "very good chaps, I wondered when one of you was going to spot that!" ;-)

 

 

Don't tell 'em your name Pike.

Stand at ease.

It's odd that someone should have picked an NP spec bearing, as above, they are for special applications - why on earth they didn't just pick a standard ball or tapered roller is beyond me....



#32 A-Cell

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 10:01 AM

adjusting cone barings   tighten to a good pinch   slacken back one castle on the nut fit split pin in do not use graphite grease   for obvious reasons ,,,,


Absolutely NOT on a mini. They are not like that, they must be done up to the torque setting plus align to next split pin hole as per the workshop manual.

#33 A-Cell

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 10:02 AM

Ok Captain, well spotted, i missed the part no quote. So that is the first problem, what the OP described as taper roller were in fact cylindrical (the NP584547) and would never work as intended. Another lesson in only using genuine parts from trusted sources.
Yes they did also use ball bearings, which obviously take radial and hurst loads.
(As the Dad's army character Captain Mainwaring used to say "very good chaps, I wondered when one of you was going to spot that!" ;-)

 
 
Don't tell 'em your name Pike.
Stand at ease.
It's odd that someone should have picked an NP spec bearing, as above, they are for special applications - why on earth they didn't just pick a standard ball or tapered roller is beyond me....

Difference between an engineer and an eBay supplier maybe!

#34 baldric

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 12:21 PM

two types of bearings have been used in minis  ,    cone and rollers   and that so called spacer  do not preload  cone and rollers or torque to that poundage that spells disaster, you are overloading the rollers on the cones  do not try and tighten the cone and roller on to the central spacer  the accepted method in my day   fit the inner cone and seat it well  fit the rollers  in the hub and seat it well do the same to the otherside   making sure that you have the spacer in  just a plain spacer not to be shimmed  its a factory thing  for a matched assembly  initially  once been squashed  at the factory when torqued at the factory  its useless for further use  ,,, especially with a new set of bearings  without  the  whole lot being a matched set ,,,  accepted method as I have explained before  tighten the castellated nut up to a good pinch tight, back off one castalation check for wheal spin should do about 3 turns  with a good pull    (done that) next check the wheal  ,   grab  both sides of the tyre   ,  then try and rock the baring , no free movement or just a tad  , job done ,  and this goes for the ball race type as well   ,,, the only difference  with  that  baring  the ball sits up against a high  shoulder    do not use the standard  ball race  these have equal sides   ,,,  the bearings that I prefer   are the cone and rollers ,,, more often or not its the bad fitting of said bearings especially overtightening  i have fitted too many that i care to remember  , oh before i forget   use the vehicle for a week   then check the said baring  ,   for wheal  slop by grab the tyre and  check for movement  if you detect  slight movement take the castle nut up one notch  if still too tight  put the castle nut back in the same position  (called setting the end float)    ,,,  always best to err on the slack side with the castle nut     ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;  too many prince georges    

baldrick



#35 Captain Mainwaring

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 02:38 PM

Dolly Parton...." you picked a fine time to leave me loose wheel"........

 

It terrifies me what Haines and ebay encourage owners to get up to.



#36 baldric

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 03:56 PM

 

adjusting cone barings   tighten to a good pinch   slacken back one castle on the nut fit split pin in do not use graphite grease   for obvious reasons ,,,,


Absolutely NOT on a mini. They are not like that, they must be done up to the torque setting plus align to next split pin hole as per the workshop manual.

 

I wish you told me this when I was in the trade  ,,,  don't belive everything you read in these manuals  they are for amateurs and written by amateurs



#37 A-Cell

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 06:20 PM

I was not referring to Haynes. The BMC, BL, Rover Workshop Manual was written by professional engineers, not amateurs or mechanics. Do not confuse rear cone type bearings like those used on Allegro with Mini rear thrust bearings. I am a professional engineer, what's more I spent more than 32 years in the company. Amongst other parts of my career I was responsible for the total engineering integrity of the cars built by Rover.
Think on before you give the wrong advice, you could be responsible for someone's injury or death and no one would want that to happen.

#38 Al-man

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 07:35 PM   Best Answer

brakes  

sounds like to me all of the cables hav goten seized  and not only that  maybe the brakes are adjusted too tight on that side  jack the whole lot up at the rear end  wheels of the deck   try and turn the wheals   you should barley hear the shoes rubbing   if too stiff slacken  them off  do one side at a time  now stab your foot on the brake pedal  this centralises the shoes on that  drum  now check again  if there is no noise / stiffness  in rotating the drum  adjust the shoe up one notch  do that  until you get a slight noise on the drum from the shoe  both sides to be done like that  with the same stabbing of the foot on the brake pedal  to centralising the shoes this is important  front wheals should be done the same   not if you have discs     BUT BEFORE DOING ALL THAT  free all cables off   important   get inside the drums  and free all the levers off  especially  the adjuster   (drop of wd 40  on the linkage in the drum )   do this sparingly   before  fitting  the drums back on   take the glaze off the shoes  with a piece of sandpaper ,,, then on the edge of the brake shoe  take the sharpness of the edge just a tad   all 8 shoes

 

keep the vehicle jacked up  hand brake time     operate the handbrake   hard   now go and check the rear drums again  with the handbrake off check that that both drums revolve freely     if one sticks on   you have a problem with the cable  go over the cable and check the central pull yoke  this is the most important part of the hand brake system if the cable is not free to move in the yoke  things get a little jammed up  and do not release propereley  (sticky)   through the lack of use and with plenty of moisture around  and road dirt this tends to happen   same happens to drums   DONE THAT   now try the handbrake again   pull the handbrake up  and relax the brake  check the drum   should have a tad swishing noise coming from the drum   if both sides are the same   ITS FIXED   hand brake adjust  the slack on the cable lever  should be about   3 to 4 notches   make sure there is oile on the handbrake linkages  and also where the cable fits into the  lever hand brake  don't half do the job  to doo all this is a couple of hours work   through the lack of use and dampness and rain   this sort of silly thing happens  do not overadjust  the whole system  years ago this sort of thing seizing  rarely  happened    these vehicles had daily use  and all those parts were in constant use   any way  I am going to sod off now

               baldrick ?

 

Thanks for your advice, but if you read my first post on this thread you will see that I mentioned that the handbrake was not sticking and the wheels spun freely. I have owned and worked on Mini's since the late 60's so realise that that seized cable quadrants on the radius arms and seized linkages are a common problem on Mini's. In this instance I had tried the usual things and hadn't come across this problem before, where the wheels spun freely with the vehicle jacked up, but one side became hot after a short journey. I found changing various components had made no difference....until today

 

Ok Captain, well spotted, i missed the part no quote. So that is the first problem, what the OP described as taper roller were in fact cylindrical (the NP584547) and would never work as intended. Another lesson in only using genuine parts from trusted sources.
Yes they did also use ball bearings, which obviously take radial and hurst loads.
(As the Dad's army character Captain Mainwaring used to say "very good chaps, I wondered when one of you was going to spot that!" ;-)

 

 Sorry that's my fault, I made a typing error I had quoted NP548547 the part number was NP548549 :shy:

 

Just a quick alternative to the wheel bearing issue.....

Since getting my Elf back n the road, I've noticed a clunk as I've first pulled away, but not spotted an issue.

MOT'd last week and got an advise on brakes binding. Took it for a run the other weekend, and you could feel the binding as you coasted up to the roundabout.

Anyway it turns out that one of the front brake hoses is knackered internally. The clunking was the brakes releasing as i reversed off the drive, but the damage has worsened so that now when the brake is applied, the fluid is trapped in the hose and the brake won't release.
Could be that you're at the intermittent stage where the brake binds, but jacking the car up releases the restriction in the hose.

 

As Jono_h suggested the fault turned out to be a partialy collapsed brake hose. I replaced it today and now the wheel no longer gets hot...Thanks Jono_h  and everyone else who has contributed to helping me sort out this problem :D



#39 baldric

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 07:59 AM

like I said its a factory thing that uses mass labour to help speed up production there is always some one and . refuse to get drawn into this anymore for the sake of the web site

#40 A-Cell

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 08:08 AM

It's a matter of safety. Following the instructions from The Rover manual and the correct spare parts, e.g. Matched set of taper rollers with spacer as supplied by the likes of Minispares is the safest way.




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