20 replies to this topic

[JonnyAlpha]

Hi;

 

I am about to remove my Rear Subframe and am in the process of locating any bits i'll need to replace before I refit it.

I already bought a set of bolts and bushes http://www.minispare....aspx?pid=34380 but was looking at other bits like brake hoses and handbrake trunnions.

 

I have found various brake hose kits:

 

This one: http://www.richmondc...d=7157&id=10277 

 

And this one: http://www.richmondc...d=7157&id=10253

 

The second one includes the flexible pipes, where can I get braided (Goodrich?) ones?

 

Also in this post I found some time ago on this site: http://www.theminifo...ubframe-change/

 

And it shows a couple of pics of what is required to refurbish the Radius Arms and Brass Rods for the Sub Frame Cones - I have found some of the individual bits but does this come in a complete kit?

 

Thanks 

[tiger99]

The company that makes brake hoses is Goodridge, no connection with Goodrich, and I do recommend their products, having used them on various vehicles. Google will find many places to get them. Avoid the long, flapping hoses with banjo connections to the wheel cylinders, a highly improper and amateurish design, and stick with the correct length hoses, replacing the short rigid pipes, and indeed all those on the car which need replacement, with Cunifer. Do not use copper under any circumstances, and be very sure that what you are sold is really Cunifer. It is noticeably less red than copper, with a greyish tinge, and much harder.

 

I don't know why you would need brass rods for the cones, it could well be very unsafe and in any case the shape of the seating against the cone is critical to get the correct spring rate. At one time there were modified trumpets available to make things stiffer or softer, but I would suggest using the standard ali trumpets, with new knuckles of course, or proper Hi-Los.

 

As already said, be prepared to find that the subframe and its components are the least of your problems, as almost all Minis that need a subframe change have extensive structural rust in the heelboard, sills and boot floor, which must be repaired properly by welding before fitting the new subframe.

[JonnyAlpha]

The company that makes brake hoses is Goodridge, no connection with Goodrich, and I do recommend their products, having used them on various vehicles. Google will find many places to get them. Avoid the long, flapping hoses with banjo connections to the wheel cylinders, a highly improper and amateurish design, and stick with the correct length hoses, replacing the short rigid pipes, and indeed all those on the car which need replacement, with Cunifer. Do not use copper under any circumstances, and be very sure that what you are sold is really Cunifer. It is noticeably less red than copper, with a greyish tinge, and much harder.

 

I don't know why you would need brass rods for the cones, it could well be very unsafe and in any case the shape of the seating against the cone is critical to get the correct spring rate. At one time there were modified trumpets available to make things stiffer or softer, but I would suggest using the standard ali trumpets, with new knuckles of course, or proper Hi-Los.

 

As already said, be prepared to find that the subframe and its components are the least of your problems, as almost all Minis that need a subframe change have extensive structural rust in the heelboard, sills and boot floor, which must be repaired properly by welding before fitting the new subframe.

 

Thanks - I meant Goodridge :-( with regards to structural rust I am expecting some holes in the Heelboard and already have some repair panels lined up

[tiger99]

Good, if you expect the worst and it turns out to be not quite as bad, I am sure you will be delighted. I think that some people don't see the bigger picture, and get very disappointed when their umpteen year old car turns out to be in much worse condition than they thought. It is best to be prepared.

 

I will be looking for my next Mini later in the year, once the new garage is finished, and I know that it will turn out  to be worse than it seems. They always are, but that is just one of the snags of owning the best car of its size, and the most revolutionary car of any size,  ever made. The rewards considerably outweigh the problems, in my opinion, and I guess that every user of this forum must agree, otherwise why are they here?

 

At least, with the exception of van models, we can still get every single body panel, many at reasonable prices, so there is rarely any need to scrap a Mini nowadays. And, umpteen people have, often from necessity, acquired useful skills such as MIG welding. I happen to think that almost anyone can learn to weld to a sufficient standard, and it is always good to learn new skills anyway.

[JonnyAlpha]

One of the first things I did after paying £120 for the first lot of welding is to buy a Clarke 140 Amp Welder, best money ever spent - and I'm getting better!!!

Edited by JonnyAlpha, 03 February 2014 - 08:48 PM.

[tiger99]

Good, that is how it should be, and needs to be, if you run a Mini, unless you are very rich. A welder does indeed pay for itself after at most 2 or 3 typical repairs, and with practice almost anyone can do it.

 

I was watching some documentary about WW2 the other day, and it seems that they were able to train lots of women, with no previous practical experience, to do more difficult welding (no MIG in those days!) on ships and even aircraft relatively quickly. Nuclear power station work is, rightly, a different ball game, but much of the mystique that surrounds more mundane welding is just nonsense. As I said, people should never be afraid of learning new skills. There is great satisfaction.

[JonnyAlpha]

Pretty sure my trusty Clarke welder has paid for itself, first attempts were pretty dire but I am quite pleased with my latest efforts:

 

[JonnyAlpha]

Anyway back to the subject in hand, I have a Minspares Rear Subframe Bolts and Bushes Kit (M43) but need a little help sorting out some of the contents. 

 

The kit contains 6 long black bolts and 2 x short silver bolts. My guess is the 2 x long black and 2 x short silver like this are for the rear mounts:

 

 

Is that rusty washer, nut and bush above also in the kit?

 

I also guess that the remaining 4 x long black bolts are to bolt through the front mounts into the captive nuts located in the heel board. 

 

But one of my front mount bolts looks like its been fitted with a couple of extra nuts used as spacers - is that normal or is that a bodge that someone has done in the past?

 

 

Unless they are sound and I very much doubt it???? I will probably be replacing the Heelboard Ends with repair panels already purchased from Minispares, MS51R and MS51L, these come with captive nuts fitted but having read a couple of post I have some concerns as to:

 

A. Are the captive nuts in these repair panels 5/16 UNF?

B. Will I also need to purchase / make and fit a re-enforcement bracket to brace the heel board against the inner sill? 

 

If I do need to buy or make a re-enforcement bracket for the repair panels I'll have do do something similar to alex-95 in the link below but instead of drilling holes in a re-enforcement brace and tapping I could simply drill holes large enough to fit over the existing captive nuts? 

 

Both these questions come about from reading these two threads:

 

http://www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums/topic/212370-some-advice-with-the-heel-board-corner-repair-please/

 

http://www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums/topic/204217-alexs-1982-hle-rebuild/page-6

 

 

Any comments / suggestions would be great

 

Edited by JonnyAlpha, 08 March 2014 - 07:15 PM.

[wile e coyote]

It's never certain that the rear sub's front trunnion bolts /captive nuts are rotten - probable yes - certain no... Presence of the doubling nut on the bolts does tell you that the sub has been off before...and if a previous owner took care the just maybe you could be ok...... have no idea why nuts are doubled though!!!

[sonikk4]

Personally if i was to use those panels i would bin those captive nuts and install the correct brackets that mount to the inner sill and also carry the captive nuts. And yes they should be 5/16 UNF nuts. Also add some extra weld to the nuts as well.

[tiger99]

Yes, these brackets, or a close approximation, are essential parts of the structure, and need to solidly link the inner sill to the heelbaord and subframe mounting bolts. The official captive nuts,on the Minis I have had to repair there, were circular and of larger diameter than a standard nut, to spread the load better, so if doing a repair again I would at least weld in thick washers on the inside to spread the load, or use a piece of rectangular section steel, drilled and tapped, or a thinner flat piece with two holes, and nuts welded on. The two holes are on 2.5" centres. You can get the brackets, and they "should" come with the correct nuts already fitted, but as said, a lot more weld will discourage them from breaking loose next time the bolts are undone.

 

The official bracket has a fold in the middle to make a stiffening rib. If I had to make one at home, I would not replicate that, but instead just weld in a little triangular stiffening gusset.

 

If you are keeping the slinging brackets, which I recommend as they add stiffness, they go on top of the heelboard/subframe nut bracket.

[JonnyAlpha]

Did a search for the bracket;

Somerford the bracket is no longer supplied on its own, they sell a genuine Heelboard repair panel with the bracket fitted. 

MiniSport also sell the genuine Heelboard repair panel but also sell a no  genuine smaller Heelboard repair panel with a bracket fitted. 

 

Unless someone knows where I can still get the brackets from as I already have the Minispare Heelboard repair panels I reckon i'll use the ones I have but modify them in either of the following ways:

 

A. Cut off the captive nut and manufacture a bracket with new 5/16 UNF Nuts welded on similiar to alex-95 http://www.theminifo...-rebuild/page-6

 

Or

 

B. Make up a bracket with holes drilled in it to fit over the captive nuts welded to the captive nuts / heelboard and inner sill.

 

Thanks

[JonnyAlpha]

 

If you are keeping the slinging brackets, which I recommend as they add stiffness, they go on top of the heelboard/subframe nut bracket.

 

What are the slinging brackets??

[Dan]

Brackets inside the sills that reinforce the slinging shoes under the sills. Used for carrying bodies around the factory during assembly, up to the point of the marriage.

[sonikk4]

You can buy the bracket from M Machine

11.32.02.27 Bracket, Rear Sub Frame Mounting with captive nuts, LH 4.50 5.40 

11.32.02.28 Bracket, Rear Sub Frame Mounting with captive nuts, RH 4.50 5.40