35 replies to this topic

[Mini Cheddars]

Further update. It's turning over now. I undid the nut for the starter motor cable on the starter motor, moved the insulation rubber a bit and did it back up. It's just not firing.

[Mini Cheddars]

Think I'll call it a night now as I now need to charge my battery.

I've put my original coil back on so as to eliminate as much as possible and checked the firing order as I did swap HT leads, thinking back. I also swapped the dizzy cap for a brand new one today. The old one was a bit worn.

I'm thinking it's an earthing issue. Could there be an earthing issue between the solenoid and starter motor?

[tiger99]

No, and please don't go changing things haphazardly. If the engine is turning over, when commanded by the ignition key only, the power and earth are both intact. So, let us work out some logical steps. I assume that the engine is known to be capable of running, because if not, we have a much larger set of things to check. But, for your own confidence, check the integrity of the engine earth strap, usually on the top steady, and think about adding a second one, from a clutch casing bolt to the inner wing.

 

But firstly, be very sure that the plug leads are now in the correct order, as it is easy for them to have become mixed up. Plugs out, rotate crankshaft pulley nut clockwise, feeling for compression on number 1 cylinder. (Or, plugs remain in, rocker cover off, valves 7 and 8 partially open, 1 and 2 closed), and bring TDC mark on pulley up to the pointer on timing chain case. Don't need extreme accuracy, we are not setting the timing, which I assume has been done already, just get it close to the TDC position.

 

Now, distributor cap off, check which lead position the rotor arm is pointing to and ensure that number 1 plug lead goes there. Now rotate pulley clockwise, and check which way the rotor arm turns. I know which way, but want you to check, for your own confidence. Going in that direction, the next cap position is for number 3 plug, followed by 4 and lastly 2. Once that is known to be correct, we can now check out the other things which may have been disturbed, specifically the solenoid connections.

 

I am thinking that if you have a ballasted ignition system (note, I am disregarding all that went before, as there was apparently some confusion, and we want to take a fresh, logical, and hopefully quick approach to getting it working), the ballast bypass is not connected, which will often prevent starting. We know that the solenoid has a live feed from the battery, and the bunch of brown wires on the main battery terminal of the solenoid are in place. Also, the solenoid is earthing via its mounting. (All of this is applicable to either solenoid on inner wing, Bendix-type starter or solenoid on starter, pre-engaged type, we don't need to know that level of detail for these basic checks.) We also know that the "start command" wire is connected to the solenoid coil terminal, because when youj turn the key, the solenoid operates. Which leaves only the ballast bypass, if fitted, which goes to the remaining terminal on the solenoid, and whose other end is on the coil positive terminal. Check the colours in both places. Check that  there is also a white-pink on the solenoid positive, whose other end is at the fusebox, on a multiple terminal shared with one or more white wires. That wire is the ballast resistor. Finally check that there are one or two white-black wires on the coil negative, one goes to the distributor, the other, if fitted, to the tacho. Disconnect the tacho wire for now, just in case a tacho short is killing the ignition.

 

Now, remove the "king" lead from the centre of the distributor cap and place it close to earthed metalwork. Turn the engine over, there should be a spark every half turn. Reconnect, and it should start.

 

Please report back with details of any step that fails or can't be done, and we will see what is appropriate to do next. But please do not go off at a tangent and fiddle with other things, yet. There may be problems elsewhere, we don't know yet, but it is really important to do only ONE thing at a time.

 

This may all seem basic, and repeating what has been done already, and maybe so, but I do believe that a fresh approach, from the very beginning, is the best way forwards. It does not mean that any previous advice was incorrect, just that the situation has become too confusing and needs to be simplified.

[Mini Cheddars]

Thanks for the advice. I'll go through the steps later when I have a friend in my club to help me out. He did a very nice job of restoring a Clubman Estate.

 

For now though as I'm about to head out for work, I forgot to say I did rest the king lead against a head bolt but couldn't see a spark and it was quite dark outside too, so I should've seen something.

[Captain Mainwaring]

Thanks for the advice. I'll go through the steps later when I have a friend in my club to help me out. He did a very nice job of restoring a Clubman Estate.

 

For now though as I'm about to head out for work, I forgot to say I did rest the king lead against a head bolt but couldn't see a spark and it was quite dark outside too, so I should've seen something.

 

Not rest against - you won't see a thing if it's touching

[Mini Cheddars]

Sorry, maybe I should've been a bit clearer. There was a few mm of a gap. About the distance of a fresh pack of BPR6ES'.

I've done the test before like that with success... after I learnt my lesson not to hold it near the bolt with bare hands lol.

Damn autocorrect..

Edited by Mini Cheddars, 05 April 2014 - 04:53 AM.

[dklawson]

The first time I got "bit" by an ignition system I was sitting on the wing of an MGB.  I didn't notice the insulation on the spark plug lead was cracked.  My neck was near the open bonnet and the first "sting" went out my neck.  Instinctively I pulled away and the next couple of shocks went through my rear end into the wing.  My friend was laughing so hard he nearly wet himself.

 

You've made good progress.  You'll have this sorted soon.

[Mini Cheddars]

Right. Re-connected the battery and the solenoid is clicking again.

My multimeter seems to be going up the duff but I have a glow lamp and I am getting a light from the engine side. I assume I'm not getting a light from the body side because the contacts aren't closed.

Other than an erratic sometimes clicking solenoid, my car was running fantastic before I touched anything.

Edited by Mini Cheddars, 05 April 2014 - 01:21 PM.

[Mini Cheddars]

Hmm... I went to Halfords and bought a battery cable that looked suitable to replace the solenoid-starter cable and a new multimeter. Swapped over the starter motor cable and when I turned the key, I saw a spark come from around the solenoid once it clicked. When I turned the key again I could notice some very faint smoke coming from my braided engine-body earth cable. Could that be the faulty suspect all this time?

I should add that I am getting a good 11-11.45v at the coil terminals.

Edited by Mini Cheddars, 05 April 2014 - 03:18 PM.

[Mini Cheddars]

I just tried undoing the earth strap under the clutch master (?) cylinder bracket where the engine stabiliser goes, but the polybush inside is spinning and I have no way of stopping it. So before putting the earth strap back on, I gave the metalwork around it a clean with some brake cleaner. Put it all back together and I *think* I saw a spark at the engine-end of the earth strap. Solenoid is still just clicking.

What the hell is going on? Tempted to call a mobile mechanic...

[Mini Cheddars]

Thrown in the towel now. I was reading on here about getting a friend to touch the earth strap whilst turning the key so he/she can see if it's warm and that if it is, to replace it. Well I did notice a few times my - battery lead being very warm a few times over the last few days of diagnosing. Could it be kaput?







Think I may have to postpone my time at Slark. Might even have to get the car to a garage... Frying my brains, this is!

[Captain Mainwaring]

That's horrible - half the strands have been ruptured and the earth to the body isn't clean enough. I also like to sweat on high current crimps.

[Mini Cheddars]

Well I've ordered a negative battery cable and engine-body earth cable. Just gotta wait now.

I hate waiting. Especially when it's the only car I have available. Hate using public transport.

[Mini Cheddars]

Got me bits. Swapped the negative battery cable over with a new braided one and still clicked. Held the key and got a fast repeating clicking noise. Thought "oh maybe the starter". Tried again and nothing... ignition wore popped off. Popped it back on and tried holding it again but instead if a repeat clicking noise, I got faint smoke from my choke cable. So gotta be an earth problem, right?

I have a brand new braided earth cable to try but does anyone have any other suggestions? Maybe for a secondary earth location?

[Mini Cheddars]

Got the new braided engine cable attached... no joy. At least no smoking now, though. Although the new strap felt sort of warm but I assume it's normal?