26 replies to this topic

[Tanya]

From AROnline: 

 

On a long trip in your classic, the one thing you cross your fingers over is the threat of failing to proceed. It happens to us all at one point, always in the most inconvenient location. The dreaded breakdown.

Until 14 April, had you been on one of the nation’s busiest motorways at least you had the solace of the hard shoulder. Not any more. Since then, the M25 lost this refuge to ‘all lanes running’. Between junctions 23 and 25 (the A1 and the A10 Great Cambridge road), the M25 has gained an extra lane – but at the loss of the hard shoulder. Temporary hard shoulder usage has been in place for a while; however this is the first instance of a physical removal of the facility instead replaced with an emergency refuge area (lay-by) every 1.5 miles.

Simply coast to this point, argue the Highways Agency and safely park. Fair enough, but should you suffer a blowout, component seizure or sudden halting failure – what then? The All lanes running section of the M25 is part of the new era of ‘Smart motorways‘ - fully CCTV monitored highway. Ifyour vehicle stops so will that section of motorway – an overhead matrix sign will display a Red X indicating the upcoming lane closure. Traffic will divert round your stricken vehicle until of Highways Agency response vehicle arrives. That’s the theory.

The worse possible reality? You coast to a halt with no warning (or ability to warn that 40-tonne juggernaut following you), get several angry horns, toot as several vehicles nearly collide with your pride and joy - all while you struggle to clamber over 2ft of filthy Armco crash barrier. Don’t even think of attempting a quick fix!

I am a daily commuter of that section of the motorway, and I’m not convinced. Not by the analysis, and certainly not by the Highways Agency’s total lack of roadside information through the affected area – just the occasional matrix warning about the Red X. No prior notification of this change – just a sudden implementation overnight. The Highways Agency has produced several colourful information displays, yet chose not to post a single one roadside… just be careful out there in your classic.

 

http://www.aronline...._types=og.likes

 

[Ethel]

There are enough fatalities even with the hard shoulder, and it also provided some flexibility and spare capacity for roadworks. I can see an advantage in HGV's being closer to the Armcote to improve its chances of controlling one safely, but I can also see a hazard in drivers assuming they're past the obstruction once they pass a stopped vehicle, or just debris, which may well have come from a second breakdown on the same section. Perhaps technology could provide better signage, but a lower lane speed limit (60 as for HGV's or lower) could be introduced immediately with other benefits for traffic flow & safety. On a 4 lane road I can't see why 50,60,70,70 lane limits wouldn't work.

[The Principal]

On the new southern stretch they have built refuges into the land beyond the hard shoulder, I've never measured them but probably a mile apart so you can pull a car off the hard shoulder as you say assuming you can make it as far as the refuge.

Edited by The Principal, 23 April 2014 - 09:37 AM.

[AVV IT]

What seems to have escaped the Highways Agencies attention is that the hard shoulder is not only for breakdowns, it's also used as an access route by the emergency services. When you're involved in an accident on the motorway and the entire carriageway tails back, the emergency services get to you by running down the hard shoulder. No hard shoulder means that they have to slowly inch their way through the lanes of stationary traffic by making vehicles move to the side to let them pass, resulting in major delays in them arriving. Potentially all lane running could cost lives.

[Black.Ghost]

I was talking to a friend about this recently and we both believe its a ridiculous idea. Not only is that section permanently deprived of a hard shoulder, there are many other parts where the hard shoulder can be used when it is busy. Having to stop in the middle of your lane, possibly with little or no warning is highly dangerous. What happens if you are in the middle lanes when you come to a halt? We are told get out of the car and get behind the barrier, and you can't just get out of your car and run across the motorway to relative safety either. I know there is this risk currently, but at least with a hard shoulder you have a slight chance of directing your car that way if you suddenly find yourself without power or something. As it stands now, you have nowhere to go safely. Add a bit of fog or rain into the mix, and it won't be long before a serious accident occurs, possibly even a fatal one. I have no idea who carried out this analysis, but they must have come to some mind boggling conclusions if they think its a good idea.

 

Its like installing electronic signs all over the place to modernise. But they still have to keep the old ones there, in case the new ones fail. Well done indeed. 

[Simont]

the size of this forum there must be somebody involved with the highway agency that has some knowlege of how they actually justified this

[Dan]

It's cheap.

[Carlos W]

It has been done for a while on the m42 (i think) near Birmingham.

I'm not sure if there have been any issues on that section of motorway but I'm sure a bit of Google or a freedom of information request would provide answers

[welldc]

It has been done for a while on the m42 (i think) near Birmingham.

I'm not sure if there have been any issues on that section of motorway but I'm sure a bit of Google or a freedom of information request would provide answers

I believe the accident rate has been reduced on the M42, BUT, this is one of the first schemes to be operated where the hard shoulder is opened for use at busy times and closed to traffic at other times, so is still available in an emergency. 

The All Lane Running is a different ball game. There will be no hard shoulder at all and the electronic signs are fewer and further apart than the M42.

 

On the new M62 managed motorway, a 60mph limit is enforced whenever the hard shoulder is in use.

[welldc]

It's cheap.

Spot on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Well, comparatively cheap.

Edited by welldc, 25 April 2014 - 08:23 AM.

[Mini 360]

I don't see the issue at all  Maintain your car well and there is no reason for breaking down in a classic, compared to a modern car.  Minis didn't break down every two minutes when new, why should it be any different now?

[Tamworthbay]

The M42 has been running ages, no major incidents that I am aware of. The major hassle on the M42 is the stupid variable speed limits with cameras that make you do 40mph at 2 o'clock in the morning on an empty motorway. Someone's idea of a laugh?

[Ethel]

I suppose if there's an incident blocking a lane or more the emergency services will have the option of driving from the opposite direction to the tailed back traffic, but is it not common for the whole carriageway to be shut for the Air Ambulance if it's that serious anyway? Speed restrictions are a better option for increasing traffic flow, so creating an extra lane should be supplementary to that.

Tamworth , wonder if that wee small hours speed restriction is down to the night shift not being able to watch all the cameras?

[Black.Ghost]

Mini 360, I don't think it matters whether or not it is a classic car. I know the article addresses classics, but we all know any car can and does break down, new and old alike. I don't care what I am in, I don't want to break down and be stuck in the middle of a motorway with lorries, vans and cars hurtling past me, with nowhere to go for a bit of comparative safety.

Edited by Black.Ghost, 25 April 2014 - 09:11 AM.

[AVV IT]

I suppose if there's an incident blocking a lane or more the emergency services will have the option of driving from the opposite direction to the tailed back traffic, but is it not common for the whole carriageway to be shut for the Air Ambulance if it's that serious anyway?

But there can be many miles between junctions and inching through tailed back traffic even from the nearest junction to an incident presents a serious delay over running down the hard shoulder. The emergency services cannot approach from the opposite direction and run against the flow of traffic on a motorway, until the Police have already reached the scene from the conventional direction, closed off all lanes, and confirmed that there is no traffic between the scene and the next junction, which takes a significant amount of time.

As for air ambulances, generally one won't be dispatched until a land ambulance resource has already arrived on scene and deemed one to be neccesary and confirmed there is an appropriate landing site for one at the incident. They are also an extremely limited resource in the first place, generally with only one per county, so they're not always available when needed. Very few air ambulances can fly/land during the hours of darkness, nor can they fly/land in the fog/heavy rain when most serious motorway incidents occur. There's also no air fire engines to my knowledge, so the fire service would still have to push their way through tailed back traffic if someone is trapped and requires cutting from the wreckage. Due to the size and manoverability of fire appliances all lane running potentially presents bigger delays to the fire and rescue service than to the ambulance service.