180 replies to this topic

[MRA]

Omit the word "rubber" from the title of the thread and you will see the true problem. A total lack of even the first principle of quality assurance, TRACEABILITY.

The problem is so acute in many industries that legislation is urgently needed to put the cowboys out of business.

 

Legislation will also put the smaller companies out of business who are trying to get issues like this sorted.  Or "young" start up companies who cannot afford to get the correct accreditation..

 

The correct legislation never happens.

[MRA]

But what about suspension bushes? The lower arms can, not very effectively in my opinion, be replaced by poly, but if you do that with the tie rods things become dangerous, with tie rods known to break due to fatigue fracture because the poly is not compressible. It is usual to use one poly each side, in front of the mount, and one rubber behind the mount to avoid the problem. Rose joints are not appropriate on a road car where some controlled amount of compliance is needed for a basic level of comfort. Also the rose jointed tie bar kits on the market are an amateurish design which is quite abominable as it substantially moves the pivot centre and gives partial trailing geometry to the lower arm, with castor change on bumps. I think a redesign of that area may be necessary...

 

Engine steadies could usefully use a rose joint at the engine end, but poly at the body or subframe end is too harsh and noisy. I am thinking hard about that one...

 

Poly bushes fail mainly due to incorrect manufacturing methods, to say that poly bushes would lead to fatigue is total rubbish and scare mongering, anything that stiffens the tie bars up & down movement could lead to fatigue but then only if it exceeds the stress rating of the tie bar, if you bend anything it will eventually fail if you take that part/material into its plastic region...  and I don't make poly parts.

 

I do use and make rose jointed tie bars and bottom arms, and the improvements are far higher than any flexible system, ie rubber or poly, for a little added noise, obviously more cost, is it perfect ?  no of course not, as the perfect system doesn't exist !   Engineering is compromise.

[alex-95]

Is it just me putting stuff together wrong or are some of the dimensions of the rubbers ( and other bit's) nowhere near what they should be? I bought 2 radiator lower bracket rubbers a while back and have only now needed them, pull them out the bag and they are different, the small diameter that fits into the radiator bracket was 2 sizes one being 16.5mm (correct size I think) and the other 14.5mm so is a tad sloppy. http://www.minispare...ck to catalogue

 

The other problem was the engine steady bushes, the rubbers were about 3mm to wide on each rubber so it didn't butt up against the engine steady and wouldn't fit between the master cylinder bracket and bracket on the bulkhead, so had to cut them. then the metal cones that fit into them were so big that they slide out once they had been pressed into the rubbers, I looked in my box of spares and found my old ones and they were much smaller and fitted without pushing out.

 

[Broomer]

It is strange after replacing all the bushes and gaiters etc on the mini that half were perished or failed before the restoration was complete and the remainder failed before the next mot.

Then im pulling gaiters and bushes out of storage for my series land rover which must be 10 years old and are in far better condition.

[minimat]

I have just dug up a pathway in my back garden and under the concrete was a steering arm of some sort,sure it was rusty as hell but the rubber boot on the ball joint was perfect and would pass an mot,god knows how long it had been underground but proberly 30 years or more i guess yet modern rubber is worn out before the car is even used!

[tiger99]

MRA, stiff tiebar bushes will most certainly cause fatigue as either the bar or the mounting lug will be forced to bend repetitively. To state an actual engineering fact (and there have been a number of fractures) which identifies a significant safety problem is not scaremongering. It is something that any responsible professional is obliged to do when circumstances require. That is why most things are actually relatively safe. If engineers failed to speak up about massive endemic quality problems and create such pressure that they had to be fixed, there would be a major train crash every day, a nuclear meltdown every week etc. Would you want a world like that?

And, applying proper QA procedures never put anyone out of business. The reverse is true, it boosts business and costs less to implement, if done sensibly, and tailored to the scale and needs of the business, than not having it. In the case of the Mini is would be mostly about auditing all suppliers to ensure that their processes are rigorous, or not procuring from them. There is no business excuse whatsoever for not applying proper QA processes.

[mab01uk]

POLY UPGRADE TRACK ROD END/KNUCKLE GAITER

Minispares Part No. 21A425EVO

Polyurethane upgraded gaiter for all knuckle joints and many track rod ends

For standard rubber versions see 21A425

Please note- this does not fit all track rod ends as so many genuine and aftermarket parts have been supplied in 55 years. It does however fit every suspension knuckle ball joint GSV1118 ever made.

https://www.minispar...|Back to search

 

Edited by mab01uk, 30 March 2019 - 08:13 AM.

[DeanP]

Not for suspension components, but these are good for general sealing applications. They aren't cheap, but I am believer in you get what you pay for.

 

You can make up your own as well if you have the skills.

 

I used them to seal my old Minor's boot after the "made to fit ones, from our supplying community", didn't work. It's still in place now and seals my boot 11 years after it was first fitted.

 

Worth a try anyway and there is a technical section that can help you decide what you need etc.

 

https://www.sealsdir...co.uk/index.asp

 

Technical specification for their Mini rear quarterlight seal.

 

https://www.sealsdir...f/ETS3240DS.pdf

https://www.sealsdir...f/ETS3240DR.pdf

Edited by DeanP, 31 March 2019 - 09:53 AM.

[MikeRotherham]

Any chance of getting the rear lamp to body seals remade in poly?

 

And thin and pliable like the original ones were.

 

When I needed to replace mine a couple of years ago I bought from a number of suppliers. Minispares and a supplier on Ebay.

 

They were all identical with the name 'Akshan' embossed on them and a lot thicker and poorly defined.

 

They were all greasy and smelt strongly of I don't know what.

 

A couple of weeks ago I happened to be checking through my spares looking for something else and had a look at the seals that I hadn't used.

 

One of them had dried out and this had been stored with the others in a plastic bag.

 

The ones on the car could do with replacing again as they have small cracks and the car hasn't been driven since they were replaced.

[Spider]

There is something in regards to rubber parts for our cars that just doesn't seem to add up.

 

We can get good Rubber Cones, the Comp Bump stops are also good as are some CV boots. Likewise, the Japanese have rubbers that are equal or better than OEM, yet some rubber parts from our main stream suppliers, not all, are of disappointing quality.

[mikal]

I posted this on another forum last week;

 

"This rubber is only 4 years old  Remarkably it's also water soluble. Does anybody supply decent ones?
Do I need to remove the tank to replace it? I forget.. Thanks."

 

 

 grommet.jpg   27.56K   1 downloads

 

 

[Spider]

I posted this on another forum last week;

 

"This rubber is only 4 years old  Remarkably it's also water soluble. Does anybody supply decent ones?
Do I need to remove the tank to replace it? I forget.. Thanks."

 

 

Yeap,,,,

 

I got one from Somerfords a couple of years back after a few of mine when like this.

 

Touch wood, while they don't have the same appearance as the originals, they are still good.

 

I'm not sure if Somerfords still have these now though. I hope so as I need a few more !

[MikeRotherham]

The rubber on modern cars lasts a lot longer than a few years.

 

Can't the rubber seals we buy be made with the same stuff?

 

Are our reputable car parts suppliers going to wait until someone is killed or seriously injured, and I don't just mean the occupants of the car, by the premature failure of an inferior quality part before they act?

[Inno]

is this better than rubber:

 

http://www.minispare...px|Back to shop

[Inno]

Just a question...

 

Questionable bushes/rubbers are:

 

Front - pre 1976:

• Rubber cones
• Lower Arm bushes
• Front bump stop
• Tie bar bushes
• Damper bushes
• track rod/Knuckle joint gaiter
• Engine mounting
• Engine stabiliser bushes

Rear

• Rubber cones
• Rear sub-frame bush set
• Knuckle joint gaiter

Most of those are available in Polyurethane - can that be a solution??

 

I am putting the car together from scratches, need to buy all new bushes and rubber (including, doors, windows, tank,..) and would like to avoid changing them every year....