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!help Please! - Running Out Of Ideas - Engine Won't Run Without Choke - New Head


Best Answer Bradshaw-s , 16 October 2014 - 04:07 PM

OK Guys...not sure if anyone wants to know the outcome?....but here goes!

Brand new (not reconditioned) HIF38...managed to pick up a FZX 1413 (without the additional 'economy' pipes)  from Ebay for £235

 

Anyway changed the needle & spring - hey presto no more idling problems & runs great - just need to play with the mixture & timing - but basically was drivable within minutes of fitting.

 

I believe the old carb was faulty from the start, even with the service kit installed - mainly because the dashpot fitted very easily on the carb body - the new one is such a tight fit - leads me to think that it was a mish mash of parts & would have struggled with it whatever I did - at last I know it wasn't an issue with the fitting/gaskets/manifolds :o)

 

Problem solved - but not totally satisfied as I would have liked to have known what the issue was with the carb exactly....but happy (even tho £235 lighter)

I would like to thank everyone for their help - but I was at the end of my tether so bought a new carb - I was confident enough that I had executed everyones ideas thoroughly...I am just glad it was the carb, no doubt you guys would have found it quickly - but this was my first mini...lesson learnt!

 

Si

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#1 Bradshaw-s

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 06:16 PM

Hi Guys,

 

I have read all articles I can find on the forum & put into practise all advice given on here & still have a major issue and I am getting desperate!

 

998cc A+ 1989 Metro Engine - Stage One Kit - HIF38 carb

 

Problem:

New (Recon) engine bought & installed - on starting for 1st time, the engine would not run without the choke half-fully open, then the Head Gasket Blew - Replaced with Payen Small Bore Gasket as advised, but the head & valves seats were damaged - Bought Reconditioned/Refaced CAM4810 Head instead of skimming as I live in Malta.

 

Changed the air filter which was a pancake type to a new one (same style) from Minispares

 

Existing needle was an AEG - so as advised changed to an AAU

 

After all the parts arrived 2 days ago - today was the first time firing again - but I still have the same issue with the engine not running without the choke pulled out - but it won't run without it.

 

What I have done:

1. Installed new Head & HG - block was cleaned & checked for flatness - all OK

2. Torqued head to 47ft/lbs initially

3. Set all valve clearances to 12 thou as per instructions given

4. Fitted new SU service kit to HIF carb - carb throughly cleaned with acetone - piston & suction chamber checked & working as per instructions

4. Replaced AEG needle with AAU

5. Replaced the pancake filter with new

6. Ensured that all connections are correct on SU 

7. New gaskets to all mating surfaces of SU & manifold - liquid gasket used to supplement in places of concern to ensure no air leaks

8. Static timing set at between 5-8 BTDC as per instructions given - firing order checked & confirmed - rotor arm at 2'oclock for No.1 cylinder - Valves 1& 2 rocking

9. Re-torqued head after 1st heat cycle (1/4 turn back then up to 50ft/lbs)

 

Engine will only fire with choke pulled out - I have tried to set the idle mixture (fully in, then 2 turns out for initial start up) - but I am no further forward as this was the same issue originally - except I have a new head, HG, needle & filter

I have dismantled the carb several times to double check the jet is clear, piston dropping correctly, float valve height set correctly - all mating surfaces are clean & sealed.

 

Please help as I have no-one here in Malta who can help me - the Mini owners club do not respond either - this is my first mini & car project & I am getting desperate for additional input to highlight where I am going wrong or have overlooked.

 

Regards

Simon.

 

 

 

 

 

 



#2 Wickermonkey

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 06:56 PM

sounds like you have the same problem ish as ive got at the moment so hopefully one of us will come up with a soloution.

I may be wrong here but as far as i know the 2 turns out for initial setup doesnt work for the hiff38/44 carbs. one thing ive been told and have read on tinterweb is that the 2 brass pieces in the center of the carb when you take the top off should be level.



#3 Bradshaw-s

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 07:03 PM

Hey,

 

Ive tried every variation of the jet / idle mixture....its getting so frustrating now as I have spent soooo much money on this car & it hasn't been on the road since for 8 months - 

Hopefully someone will be able to help us!

 

Si



#4 Earwax

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 09:36 PM

Take the air filter off. Manually lift the SU piston to top, try starting. even though you have been meticulous with your prep , it does sound as if air is leaking in somewhere on the inlet side, when going give everything a wobble and listen for changes to engine sound or spray with something to check for leaks,,, don't discount the extractor side.  I had a Hs6 recently that needed well more than the 2 - 2 1/2 turns lowered to get it running.  The butterfly in the carb didn't close properly

best of luck , you will find it



#5 KernowCooper

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 10:10 PM

Can you get it to idle by richening the mixture? and are you sure the fork is raising/lowering the jet?



#6 Bradshaw-s

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 04:57 PM

Hi guys,

Thankyou for your replies & apologise for my late one!

I will be back on the car tomorrow afternoon & will try all your advice & get back to you.

Thanks again

Si



#7 Bradshaw-s

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 03:08 PM

OK - I have today tried:

 

Taking off dashpot/chamber & ensured as Kernow suggested, that the jet rises & falls with adjustment - this I can confirm is OK- screwing in to richen the mixture also - does not seem to effect the choke situation.

 

Removing the filter - lifting the piston manually, whilst starting, when I did this the engine died immediately - the only way the engine runs is with choke still - the piston does not rise far when using the throttle to rev either.

 

So because of the air leak suggestion - I again stripped the inlet & exhaust manifold off - ensured that the shoulders of the inlet & exhaust manifolds are the same thickness to eliminate this possibility. I

had a new spare gasket which I installed - again cleaned all mating surfaces & used liquid gasket as a backup.

 

The spacer block was checked for hairline cracks - there was a suspect tiny fracture - this I repaired thinking this was the problem, but no!

I checked all gaskets again on the carb & again used liquid gasket now in addition to to ensure tight seal.

 

The SU was serviced by me - using SU service kit - all seals, jet etc were replaced - the butterfly & linkage were not changed tho as this was in the rebuild kit - would this be a possible avenue?

 

I am so frustrated now as I feel I have been meticulous in my approach but the car is ready to go apart from this one issue!! - can someone tell me what other adjustments there are on this carb that could cause this problem - could it be the suction chamber?



#8 Covert

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 03:44 PM

Not that i can help in relation to the specific problem your having , but have you got another working carb you could swap to?
Hope you get it sorted out
All the best

#9 Bradshaw-s

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 04:16 PM

I am trying this avenue at present - just to eliminate the carb - but as I live in Malta (only recently) I have a very limited number of people who can help.

The Malta Mini Owners Club is my next port of call - but they do not respond to my emails or calls lol

 

I started this project in Feb 2014 - & this problem has been with me for 4 weeks now - the last stage too....so close.......



#10 Covert

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 05:02 PM

Let me know if you want me to bid on one on ebay and send it to you , some people wont ship abroad , i have done this in the past . Or maybe someone on here can sort you out a known working carb , hope you get it sorted things like this can be very frustrating

#11 Bradshaw-s

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 06:27 PM

Hey,

Thankyou so much!

Will give you a PM if I decide to go down that route !

 

Si



#12 Earwax

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 01:25 AM

Visually look into the bellmouth as you flip the spindle.... check that the butterfly closes with no light coming through from the bottom.(sometimes the choke adjuster can keep this slightly open) The only other thing i think you could try is the fueling into the carb.. and the floats.... on the older HS series i would say check the plastic line joining the jet as if split it can suck air ( common on whipper snippers etc)  the other thing to try just for the sake of trying is adjust the timing way forward or backward incase it is one tooth 19degrees out????



#13 blacktulip

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 08:25 AM

double check for air leaks from the inlet manifold, i am thinking you have an air leak somewhere. i had a similar problem on a mini city e which had a servo take off from the inlet manifold, it turned out the banjo bolt was loose. then it ran sweet as a nut.

 

also how about putting your old needle and filter back on to see if its a problem with the new filter and needle.



#14 Dusky

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 09:38 AM

What oil si you have in the dashpot? and what.spring are you using? Needle cold be too lean maybe..

#15 KernowCooper

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 05:35 PM

You can adjust any needle to give a idle with the adjustment My money is on a air leak or retarded timing






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