20 replies to this topic

[Nom_de_Zebra]

Hi all - reading through the recent Spot Welder is It Worth It? topic and everyone here is plugging the Clarke CSW6T - I picked one up specifically for my project but have been very disappointed,  so thought given the continual reviews I thought I should ask fron those in the know if there are any particular tips and tricks anyone's found useful specifically on their projects?

 

More specifically, it welds two new, perfectly clean bits of steel together perfectly well in a test situation, but does a rubbish job with most things outside of this eg new steel to old steel, such as a new panel to an old panel, or where zinc primer is used between two surfaces. Have found this hugely disappointing despite a bunch of playing around to see if I just didn't have the settings right etc (plus reading up various welding websites etc), but have now gone back to MIG plug welding as I simply can't trust the variable results on bits that actually matter.  

 

With a roof to replace I thought it was worth asking again - any tips on using the thing for a better result?

[antcole]

I have a sealey unit almost exactly the same as yours (probably the same inside) and have no problems at all.

 

Two factors to consider -

1. Metal cleanliness and good electrical contact.

2. Power supply - use a 16 amp supply with a round pin plug - not a 13 amp ordinary socket with square plug pins (and definitely no domestic extension lead)

If it cant draw the amps it needs, it will be weak and feeble.

 

Make sure you have the electrodes set up exactly right, ie, 6mm screw in the handle, two pieces of the same gauge metal youre welding, adjust the electrodes to just nip the test pieces and tighten the electrode locking screws.

Remove the 6mm screw from the handle and have a test run.

 

I have the timer set to maximum for everything.

Make sure theres good metal to metal contact between the steel to be welded and where the electrodes nip together, if its painted or theres rust in there, it will spit and splutter with a poor adhesion.

 

More often than not, its the tension between the electrodes when closed fully that causes poor adhesion.

 

If the above doesnt work, then i would make sure the power supply is strong enough. These things will draw heavy current and dim the lights if theres not enough supply.

Dont use through an extension lead unless its a 16amp 2.5mm2 core cable lead or bigger.

 

Failing all of that, take it back and get a replacement,

[CBJ805T]

Hi I know what you mean about differences between fresh, clean test peices and welding on the car but I've managed to get acceptable results:

1. Make sure you've got your electrode gap set correctly (1 x material thickness)

2. Don't use the welder to clamp the panels - I had a clamp on either side of the electrodes as close as I could get the

3. Make sure the surface of your electrode contact surface is clean (should be if new) but these can be cleaned with some fine (360grit??) sandpaper, by clamping it between the electrodes and removing under load.

4. Don't let any part of the electrodes touch any part of the car apart from the 2 contact faces - this part is critical. When welding the outer sill to step I kept blowing holes but the test prices were fine. I realised the end of the bottom arm was touch the outer sill. Stopped this and it worked no problem.

I'm going to invest in a pair of arms like these which are intended to tight spots (excuse the pun)

http://www.clarketoo...fo-6030115.html

Even with the steps above I would say 1 in 10-15 welds blow through but these can be repaired with plug welds afterwards

Pic shows one side with spot weld on the outer sill

[Nom_de_Zebra]

Thanks for the advice so far.

Antcole - isn't a power supply issue - have it running on a 16amp socket, on a 30amp breaker, with no extension lead.

[Daz1968]

Think it's like most things in life it looks easy when an expert does it,
I haven't used my spot welder in anger yet but I am planning to mainly use it on new steel. Hopefully make some arms myself out of copper bar and practice with the settings until I am happy. Mig welding is difficult when you start so I presume this is no different.
Keep at it am sure you will get there.

[Daz1968]

Had a play with my csw6t today on some old metal that I ground back to clean up, I found it no problem, critical setting is the pressure if it grips to tight the copper sticks to steel and burns tips and leaves hole in panel, I found it needs to be set so it's a sliding fit on the two pieces of steel then I adjusted the timer to get a weld that was acceptable. Quite impressed with it to be honest as at least no grinding after like plug welding, I will use it where I can on my mk2.
I advise you just practice a little more until get confidence with it.

[Tamworthbay]

We have the same one at work. The electrode distance is critical but what usually causes an issue is the angle it's held at. It's much harder to get it right upside down under something than when they are clamped in a vice. They are good bits of kit but can take a bit of getting used to. Keep at it, it will come good.

[Stu.]

I'm considering buying the Clarke csw6t. I currently have an armoured cable to my garage protected at the house consumer unit by a 16 amp type b rcd. In the garage there is a small consumer unit with more type b 16 amp rcd's.

Based on the above and assuming I change one of the 3 pin 13 amp sockets to a 16 amp socket, do you think it'll run ok without tripping out?

I only ask because obviously I don't want to invest if I can't use it. Any help or users experiences would be most appreciated.

[I hate Brian]

Hi guys for what it's worth I borrowed a Clarke spot welder from a local college, it was in great condition can't remember the model number but I had little faith in the strength of the welds and resorted to plug welding. Very similar to CBJ805T post picture the seam of the door step I felt the spot welder wouldn't penetrate enough for me.

[CBJ805T]

I'm considering buying the Clarke csw6t. I currently have an armoured cable to my garage protected at the house consumer unit by a 16 amp type b rcd. In the garage there is a small consumer unit with more type b 16 amp rcd's.

Based on the above and assuming I change one of the 3 pin 13 amp sockets to a 16 amp socket, do you think it'll run ok without tripping out?

I only ask because obviously I don't want to invest if I can't use it. Any help or users experiences would be most appreciated.

CSW6T is rated 16amp and based on my experience you should be fine. Even if you trip it the RCD's in the garage, so not trekking to the under-stairs cupboard  

[Daz1968]

I had a 16 amp socket with a type B 16amp breaker and it tripped everytime, I swapped it out for a 20amp type C breaker and all is fine, I have found it very easy to use and the critical setting for me was the pressure which is adjusted inside the handle, different length arms needed a different setting, to weak and the weld didn't penetrate fully and if set to tight it could burn through. Took a little practice but not having many problems now. Defo one of my better investments. the only problem is cost of the unit and arms, but if factored in overall cost of a restoration is not that great really.

[Stu.]

Thanks guys.

 

Daz, I suspected this might pose an issue. I also have a 32 amp type B RCD serving the ring main to my kitchen and have a spare 13a socket behind one of the plinths I could upgrade to a 16 amp or 32 amp plug. Do you think I could go this way or do you think it'd be a bit of a risk. Clearly the RCD would only give protection to overloading the cable at around 32 amps which I dont think would be particularly safe?

[djdanmk]

RCD's do not provide overload protection, they provide protection against earth faults/imbalances between live and netural conductors and are there to prevent serious harm from electric shocks. An MCB provides overload protection. You can have RCBO's fitted to a consumer unit which provide both. If you have 2 RCD's/rcbo's in line with each other then they will both trip at the same time as there id no discrimination between them i.e they both see the earth fault and trip.

 

If you are not sure that your electrics are upto the job you need them for then it is best to get an electrician to have a look. Every installation is different and for safety needs to be inspected first hand to see what you need.

 

A 16A socket can be run in 2.5mm cable but could equally need 4mm or 6mm depending on the length of run. The socket should be protected by a 16A MCB/RCBO.

[I hate Brian]

If your worried about MCB type you should really use a 16 or 20 A MCB type C this is for motor/surge applications, so when you have the initial surge load of the spot welder it won't trip the MCB. As correctly stated by djdanmk length of run is critical for cable rating, I would also use a commando type of socket and plug as this is more a industrial/commercial setup.

Edited by I hate Brian, 02 December 2015 - 02:52 PM.

[Stu.]

Yes I see. Thanks very much for the advice.

 

I wont be doing any of this myself and will be paying an Electrician to do the work so it should all be checked for cable size and length etc, but I just like to understand things in theory so I can see if its practical to do bearing in mind the price of spot welders.

 

Having had another look at my house consumer unit, it appears they are all type B MCB's not RCD's and there is a 63 amp RCCB in the middle of them all. Does this make a difference?