32 replies to this topic

[pusb]

Some point in the not too distant future, possibly next year, I want to do something to make my Mini a bit more speedy.

 

It currently has its original 850 A series engine with HS4 carb. Whilst it runs well enough, and can still be fun to drive, I'm starting to get a bit fed up with having to plan my journeys around avoiding hills!

 

So what are the easiest, and cheapest ways to get more power?

 

From what I can see I have the following options:

 

Have the current 850 engine tuned/modified? - Probably expensive due to scarcity of parts these days, and would it increase performance much?

 

Buy a 998 engine and fit that? - From what I've seen 998 engines seem to sell for a reasonable price, but would the slight increase in performance justify the expense?

 

Buy a 1275 engine and fit that? - Probably the easiest option, but from what I've seen 1275 engines don't sell cheap, even ones in need of a rebuild.

 

Buy something like a Suzuki or Vauxhall engine and fit that? - Probably best for performance and reliability, but I really don't want to alter the shell. I like the look of the standard unmolested Mini.

 

 

Then I have the issue of whether I could do this myself or would I have to get a mechanic to do it? I have done a few small jobs on the Mini so far, but nothing really major. From what I've read the trickiest bit is removing the Pot Joints. Would this be beyond the capabilities of a novice?

 

Love to hear the thoughts of the experienced Mini modifiers!

Edited by pusb, 05 October 2015 - 07:51 PM.

[Cooperman]

The 850 is the original classic engine and is the true spirit of Mini driving.

However, there is little point in seeking to modify an 850 due to the crankshaft limit and the small capacity.

So if you really want to go faster (in a classic car one might ask why) the best way is a larger engine.

See my ad where I'm selling a 1275 A+ block, crank & pistons  .

[pusb]

The 850 is the original classic engine and is the true spirit of Mini driving.

However, there is little point in seeking to modify an 850 due to the crankshaft limit and the small capacity.

So if you really want to go faster (in a classic car one might ask why) the best way is a larger engine.

See my ad where I'm selling a 1275 A+ block, crank & pistons  .

 

I wish you were selling that in 6 months time when I'll have the money!

 

The issue I have with buying an engine is dealing with unscrupulous sellers. I'm sure you would be honest about the condition of something your selling, but not everyone is honest. So I would have thought any engine I buy would have to be rebuilt? Which will just add to the costs.

 

Incidentally, I will still keep the 850 engine. So the car can be changed back to standard if every its necessary.

[Spider]

So what are the easiest, and cheapest ways to get more power?

 

See if you can get a hold on an 1100 engine, it will fit on to your existing gearbox and use most of the ancillary items you already have, right down to the primary gear.

 

Two items that will need changing if you go this route though are the distributor and the carb needle.

[Cooperman]

Maybe I'm over-careful, but I have never and would never fit an unknown engine to a Mini. I have bought and fitted many engines over the years, but I can't remember ever buying a second hand one which did not need some sort of a re-build prior to installation & running.

Always allow for a re-bore, new pistons, a crank grind, new oil pump, valves & guides, a head skim, cam followers and all new gaskets as an absolute minimum. Then if, for example, the bores only need a light hone and new piston rings you have saved a bit of the budget.

The only time I've fitted an engine without stripping & inspecting it is when it has come from a car I've driven and checked out the engine running, but even that has its risks.

[Spider]

Now I've a little more time to add to my take on this.

 

I'd largely agree with Cooperman re: buying a 'runner', but if you can find one that you can test drive, then that's gotta be a bonus, none the less, I'd suggest planning on rebuilding it in the following 1 to 2 years, it's very rare to get a good runner.

 

I'll also just say from my own experience, the costs of overhauling and engine and gearbox, whether it be an 850 or a 1275 and everything in between are roughly the same. I'm only talking of overhaul or reconditioning here, not modifying.

 

When modifying engines and number of things should be taken in to account, but just coming back to basics, we are modifying the engine to get more power (and that's in line with the topic title - yeah?). So just considering numbers where it counts - at the wheels - the costs and effort to get the small bore engines to perform the same as a stock 1275 will rough equate to the same as buying a 1275 in the first place, though usually a bit more. On top of that, the 1275 is considerably better built for performance than the smaller engines. Also, modifying a 1275 for money spent will yield better results in both overall and percentage terms. 

 

I'd say that probably the only time you'd modify a smaller engine is for a particular class of competition. Some guys like to do them too just to see what they can get out of (say) a 998, and I get that, but always involves lots of money to get there.

 

So, I'd suggest if your on a bit of a budget a stock 1100 is a good engine and give the Mini that extra something for day to day motor and driving, if you are thinking of modifying engines, (even at a later point), then the 1275 is the way to go and even in stock form, is a very good all round engine.

[Spider]

The 850 is the original classic engine and is the true spirit of Mini driving.

 

Yeah, I kinda see that, but I look at it that it paved the way for the bigger engines and better brakes

[Cooperman]

 

The 850 is the original classic engine and is the true spirit of Mini driving.

 

Yeah, I kinda see that, but I look at it that it paved the way for the bigger engines and better brakes

 

 

I can remember when the 997 Cooper was introduced. I drove one and was astounded by its performance compared to the 850 Minis we had. Then I bought a brand new 998 in 1964 and loved it. I couldn't quite afford one of the 'new. Cooper 'S's.

Currently I have a 1964 full-on rally Cooper 'S' and a 1964 850 which is being fully restored. the engine for the 850 will be standard and is, in fact, the original for the car, currently seized up and needing a complete re-build. I do have a couple of spare 998 blocks, but I'll build the 998 so that I can enjoy true classic original Mini driving. I know it'll be slow, but then so is a Morris Minor, a 997 Ford Anglia and everything else from around the early 1960's (except the E-Type!). To me that's what classic car owning is really about, enjoying the retro driving like we had back then.

My 'S' is very quick through the gears in classic car terms, but it's not even as quick 0 - 60 as my wife's or my road cars.

[Carlos W]

I suppose that's the benefit some of us have owning a mini as well as a daily.

 

I'm hoping to get rid of the Ibiza in January and buy a Bora 2.8 4motion and the wife will have the Mazda.

 

If you put a 1275 in, keep the 850, upgrade to discs, but keep the drums. That way you can put it back to standard of you so wish.

[Cooperman]

We changed a lot of 850 Minis into Cooper 'S's for competition in the '60's.

I bought a 997 Cooper, fitted a 1275 'S' engine, plus 'S' discs, hubs, callipers & drive shafts together with a servo and twin tanks, added decent seats, 'S' badges, 120-mph speedo, plus the usual rally parts and I had a complete rally Cooper 'S', which I later sold to another competitor for a lot of money. My wife used it to travel the short distance from home to work whilst I had a SAAB 96V4 as a road car.

[pusb]

 

 

The 850 is the original classic engine and is the true spirit of Mini driving.

 

Yeah, I kinda see that, but I look at it that it paved the way for the bigger engines and better brakes

 

 

I can remember when the 997 Cooper was introduced. I drove one and was astounded by its performance compared to the 850 Minis we had. Then I bought a brand new 998 in 1964 and loved it. I couldn't quite afford one of the 'new. Cooper 'S's.

Currently I have a 1964 full-on rally Cooper 'S' and a 1964 850 which is being fully restored. the engine for the 850 will be standard and is, in fact, the original for the car, currently seized up and needing a complete re-build. I do have a couple of spare 998 blocks, but I'll build the 998 so that I can enjoy true classic original Mini driving. I know it'll be slow, but then so is a Morris Minor, a 997 Ford Anglia and everything else from around the early 1960's (except the E-Type!). To me that's what classic car owning is really about, enjoying the retro driving like we had back then.

My 'S' is very quick through the gears in classic car terms, but it's not even as quick 0 - 60 as my wife's or my road cars.

 

 

If my Mini was in original condition, I wouldn't dream of changing the engine. I'm all for preserving the originality of classic cars, but so much of my car has been changed already, that the first owners of it wouldn't recognise it now. I will keep the engine anyway so it could always be put back at some point.

[pusb]

Now I've a little more time to add to my take on this.

 

I'd largely agree with Cooperman re: buying a 'runner', but if you can find one that you can test drive, then that's gotta be a bonus, none the less, I'd suggest planning on rebuilding it in the following 1 to 2 years, it's very rare to get a good runner.

 

I'll also just say from my own experience, the costs of overhauling and engine and gearbox, whether it be an 850 or a 1275 and everything in between are roughly the same. I'm only talking of overhaul or reconditioning here, not modifying.

 

When modifying engines and number of things should be taken in to account, but just coming back to basics, we are modifying the engine to get more power (and that's in line with the topic title - yeah?). So just considering numbers where it counts - at the wheels - the costs and effort to get the small bore engines to perform the same as a stock 1275 will rough equate to the same as buying a 1275 in the first place, though usually a bit more. On top of that, the 1275 is considerably better built for performance than the smaller engines. Also, modifying a 1275 for money spent will yield better results in both overall and percentage terms. 

 

I'd say that probably the only time you'd modify a smaller engine is for a particular class of competition. Some guys like to do them too just to see what they can get out of (say) a 998, and I get that, but always involves lots of money to get there.

 

So, I'd suggest if your on a bit of a budget a stock 1100 is a good engine and give the Mini that extra something for day to day motor and driving, if you are thinking of modifying engines, (even at a later point), then the 1275 is the way to go and even in stock form, is a very good all round engine.

 

Thanks for the indepth reply!

 

I'm not looking for anything mega fast, just something that can do 0-60 in under 15 seconds, so its a bit more comfortable in keeping up with the modern traffic. From what your saying then I think I am best going for a clapped out 1275, and getting it rebuilt.

[pusb]

I suppose that's the benefit some of us have owning a mini as well as a daily.

 

I'm hoping to get rid of the Ibiza in January and buy a Bora 2.8 4motion and the wife will have the Mazda.

 

If you put a 1275 in, keep the 850, upgrade to discs, but keep the drums. That way you can put it back to standard of you so wish.

 

It was converted to servo & discs long before I took ownership of it, so the drums are long gone.

Edited by pusb, 06 October 2015 - 04:39 PM.

[Spider]

 

Now I've a little more time to add to my take on this.

 

I'd largely agree with Cooperman re: buying a 'runner', but if you can find one that you can test drive, then that's gotta be a bonus, none the less, I'd suggest planning on rebuilding it in the following 1 to 2 years, it's very rare to get a good runner.

 

I'll also just say from my own experience, the costs of overhauling and engine and gearbox, whether it be an 850 or a 1275 and everything in between are roughly the same. I'm only talking of overhaul or reconditioning here, not modifying.

 

When modifying engines and number of things should be taken in to account, but just coming back to basics, we are modifying the engine to get more power (and that's in line with the topic title - yeah?). So just considering numbers where it counts - at the wheels - the costs and effort to get the small bore engines to perform the same as a stock 1275 will rough equate to the same as buying a 1275 in the first place, though usually a bit more. On top of that, the 1275 is considerably better built for performance than the smaller engines. Also, modifying a 1275 for money spent will yield better results in both overall and percentage terms. 

 

I'd say that probably the only time you'd modify a smaller engine is for a particular class of competition. Some guys like to do them too just to see what they can get out of (say) a 998, and I get that, but always involves lots of money to get there.

 

So, I'd suggest if your on a bit of a budget a stock 1100 is a good engine and give the Mini that extra something for day to day motor and driving, if you are thinking of modifying engines, (even at a later point), then the 1275 is the way to go and even in stock form, is a very good all round engine.

 

Thanks for the indepth reply!

 

I'm not looking for anything mega fast, just something that can do 0-60 in under 15 seconds, so its a bit more comfortable in keeping up with the modern traffic. From what your saying then I think I am best going for a clapped out 1275, and getting it rebuilt.

 

 

No worries!

 

A stock 1275, with the CR bumped up gives great performance at low cost (depending on perspective I guess) and also great life. Tune up time - just get the book out. Spare Parts, just order them from mini Spares or whoever.

 

When built right and I really do mean right (not modified), they go very very well.

[Lt-SilverDragon]

Supercharge the 850, would be sweet.