Jump to content


Photo

Rust Proofing Heresy.


  • Please log in to reply
25 replies to this topic

#1 ti666er

ti666er

    Learner Driver

  • TMF+ Member
  • PipPip
  • 23 posts
  • Location: Leeds

Posted 13 September 2016 - 11:59 AM

What are peoples thoughts on this:

I have long wondered about applying wax based anti corrosives over painted surfaces. Let me explain: I removed my cars outer (9 inch bodge) sill the other day, to find a coating of wax over what appeared to be bubbled and flaking Hammerite, which in turn was loosely covering some very rusty metalwork. How can cavity waxes protect metal, when they are not in contact with it? When I install my new sills, I will leave the inner surfaces bare steel, except for weld thru primer at the joints, and then thoroughly wax inject. . . . very thoroughly. This can be periodically reapplied, and I can be fairly confident that it will be in contact with the metalwork, not sat on top of (possibly flaking) paint.

 

Any opinions?



#2 Mini 360

Mini 360

    Up Into Fourth

  • TMF+ Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,900 posts
  • Location: Aberdeenshire
  • Local Club: Independent

Posted 13 September 2016 - 12:20 PM

Isn't that what your supposed to do anyway..?  Theres no issue with applying it over painted surfaces, provided the painted surface has been applied correctly.  Slapping wax over poorly prepped panles will never work.



#3 pete l

pete l

    One Carb Or Two?

  • TMF+ Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 979 posts
  • Location: East of France

Posted 13 September 2016 - 12:45 PM

I like your way of thinking but I have no idea if it will work, I will follow this and read everyones opinion.



#4 Steve220

Steve220

    Up Into Fourth

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,531 posts
  • Location: Shropshire
  • Local Club: RAF Mini Club

Posted 13 September 2016 - 03:37 PM

There is a mind set of owners out there that believe just slapping waxoyl on rust will cure the problem. It's like sticking a plaster on a broken leg. If it's built properly using the correct preventative method, then I don't see why a mini can't last for double figures without needing a touch up!

#5 ti666er

ti666er

    Learner Driver

  • TMF+ Member
  • PipPip
  • 23 posts
  • Location: Leeds

Posted 13 September 2016 - 03:38 PM

Regarding the applying of paint to areas prior to them becoming enclosed, like if I was to paint the inner surface of the new sills before assembly,  its the longer term that makes me concerned. Its likely that even well prepared painted surfaces will experience some flaking over time, and this is when the problem starts. I had this problem on the chassis of my VW camper. The painted areas eventually began to lift. It now has dinitrol wax over the previously painted areas, and so far remains rust free. I periodically re-apply wax, and it seems ok. (sorry for mentioning VW's).



#6 Steve220

Steve220

    Up Into Fourth

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,531 posts
  • Location: Shropshire
  • Local Club: RAF Mini Club

Posted 13 September 2016 - 04:16 PM

If done properly, the paint shouldn't lift.

#7 dyshipfakta

dyshipfakta

    One Carb Or Two?

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,438 posts

Posted 13 September 2016 - 04:42 PM

the risk you run with not painting is that if you miss any it's going to rust quicker given that you can't be certain that your going to cover the steel entirely I would be painting regardless. Especially in cavities like the sills. Flaking paint may happen but go over it again with wax once a year and shouldn't be an issue.

#8 Scousemouse

Scousemouse

    Speeding Along Now

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 358 posts
  • Location: Liverpool

Posted 13 September 2016 - 05:09 PM

Do they still sell the wax-oil kits  ie  Gallon of Wax-Oil,spray gun,variety of hoses + angled spray nozzles + plugs with drill bit???

I've looked on flea bay all I could find was a Gallon of Wax-Oil with a spray + a length of hose with a straight nozzle.


Edited by Scousemouse, 13 September 2016 - 05:10 PM.


#9 ti666er

ti666er

    Learner Driver

  • TMF+ Member
  • PipPip
  • 23 posts
  • Location: Leeds

Posted 13 September 2016 - 08:41 PM

Things like Hammerite, and indeed waxoyl are, in my opinion for garden railings, not cars. have a look on rust.co.uk. The rustbuster products are the real deal if you ask me. Also, I would avoid POR15. its the most difficult to apply paint I have ever used, and after following its very demanding application method, it will peel off with ease. seriously though Scousemouse, try Dinitrol wax, from Frost.co.uk or Rust.co.uk, you will never use waxoyl again!



#10 tiger99

tiger99

    Crazy About Mini's

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,568 posts
  • Location: Hemel Hempstead

Posted 14 September 2016 - 12:35 AM

ALL paint coatings have a major weakness, because when you finally close up a cavity such as a sill by welding, the paint is inevitably damaged, leaving bare metal, which will corrode.

 

The most satisfactory way of mitigating that is to use a zinc coating. Hot dip galvanising is best, but you can't dip a Mini shell so we can rule that out. Arc or plasma spray is next best, and CAN be done if you can get hold of the equipment. Last, by a very long way, is a zinc based primer. I would use the zinc primer if all else fails, and it can be painted over with as many coats as you wish of whatever paints system you are using.

 

The zinc primer is weak mechanically, unlike epoxy primer, but inside a cavity it is not subject to wear and tear so should survive fairly well. Zinc protects by sacrificial corrosion, even if scratched or damaged. But to cover all damaged areas and provide an extra barrier to keep water off the metal, a good cavity wax should be used, and reapplied regularly. It will also creep into the seams where the zinc will not go easily.

 

It is one of my ambitions to have a zinc arc spray machine one day, but they cost about £20k. However, the technology is basically that of a twin wire MIG welder with an added air jet, and bearing in mind that in the late 1960s the early automotive MIG welders cost the equivalent of £20k to £30k in today's money, I do have serious expectations of them coming down below £1000, the price of a good AC TIG. If the demand is there, someone will mass produce them cheaply.

 

Meanwhile I suggest the very best zinc rich primer that you can find, the weld-through variety where necessary, painted over with a good epoxy primer and any random colour of top coat that you have lying about. Then close up the welds, try to get some more zinc into the seams, and when it is all dry, and indeed only after painting the whole outside, inject plenty of wax.



#11 ti666er

ti666er

    Learner Driver

  • TMF+ Member
  • PipPip
  • 23 posts
  • Location: Leeds

Posted 14 September 2016 - 09:02 AM

Interestingly, in a test by practical classics, a panel was half coated in epoxy mastic 1:1 primer (rust.co.uk), and the other half left bare. If I remember, the test was over three years and by the end of it, the paint next to the bare area was still in sound contact with the metal, no lifting or peeling. This may get round the problem that tiger99 illustrates, where the final paint coating is damaged by welding the panel into place. So at the moment I am trying to decide on either bare steel and high pressure wax injection, or epoxy mastic 1:1 and wax injection as well. The test in question available on the rust.co.uk website.

I do not work for, or have shares in Rustbuster. I just find their products to be effective for serious automotive preservation.



#12 castafiore

castafiore

    Mini Mad

  • Noobies
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 116 posts
  • Location: North West

Posted 15 September 2016 - 08:50 AM

Bilt Hamber Electrox is a good high zinc rust resistant primer, though expensive. On my car resto (not a mini) I have also been using Aldi straight to metal paint (must be the aerosol version, not tinned, in areas that are unseen. This paint dries to a very hard dull shine.

As I understand it most primers, apart from epoxy, absorb moisture. If you have a sealing top coat the moisture won't reach the actual metal. I think you also need to bear in mind that some panels rot from the inside out. The rust is coming through from the other side, so the wax on the inside of a sill or panel looks to have been ineffective, even if it isn't because the rust started elsewhere.

#13 morley

morley

    One Carb Or Two?

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 903 posts
  • Location: Devon

Posted 15 September 2016 - 09:33 AM

Look into what they've used to paint the fourth bridge. It's what I'm using on mine, bit pricey but should last a very very long time!

#14 tiger99

tiger99

    Crazy About Mini's

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,568 posts
  • Location: Hemel Hempstead

Posted 15 September 2016 - 11:57 AM

The fourth bridge would have been built many thousands of years ago, before paint was invented, and would have been stone. I assume you mean the Forth bridge.

#15 Richie83

Richie83

    One Carb Or Two?

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,434 posts
  • Location: Somerset

Posted 15 September 2016 - 12:00 PM

The fourth bridge would have been built many thousands of years ago, before paint was invented, and would have been stone. I assume you mean the Forth bridge.

touché




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users

Mini Spares