56 replies to this topic

[Alice Dooper]

On a very slightly sideways to switches being dangerous -

I'm ex fire service. I was at an RTA with a Metro Mk.1 parked the hard way in a garden wall. It had an old fashioned 2 column stock and push button radio mounted in the dash. It broke free on the initial impact and squarely hit the passenger right in the middle of the forehead. Left a perfect imprint. Someone must have turned his volume button down, at the start he was fairly vocal, next time I looked round he was temporarily turned off on the ground..

Moral of the storey is that anything unsecured can have a varied effect on an impact.

[Chris1992]

When crashing a Mini, I'm pretty sure that some bloody toggle switches will be the least of your worries... 

 

I feel like Tiger is one of those people who lives in a house with bubble-wrap stuck to every edge and corner. And as for the comments regarding wiring competence, why make assumptions regarding Ovalworks' wiring ability? I'd say he's done a pretty good job personally, and certainly knows what he's doing.

[sledgehammer]

 I strongly recommend putting it all back to its normal configuration before someone is killed.
A car is a safety-critical piece of machinery,
not a fashion accessory, and it takes far more knowledge and experience than you have to carry out pointless modifications like these safely.

 

so you know Ovalworks tiger ?

 

as you seem to imply that he is incompetent - quite an insult

 

and the point of the modification is , it is more reliable than the rocker switches & he finds them easier to use

 

just imagine if he has a non genuine subframe ,

 

& a fuse in the lighting circuit

 

it would be lethal !!!

[KernowCooper]

The seats are dangerous ! one evening I had both seats up and for some unknown reason when I had one leg under each facing the rear seat they both fell onto my calf muscles, but thats another story, back to the toggle switches

[Spider]

Some clever work there Ovalworks, nice and not just thinking outside the square, but actually getting it to work. I must say, I do prefer the positive feel of a Toggle Switch over a Rocker.

 

I don't really want to wade in to this bun-fight, over what and what isn't legal in the UK, but I'll put it out there that these are available as an accessory to Toggle switches;-

 

http://www.carbuilde...ch-guard-chrome

 

So have I made mine more or less safe by putting rubber switch extenders on? Oh, and definitely don't mention the 52 year old factory wiring with no headlight relays or fuses...

 

Well, as you Mini was built in Aust and prior to 1st Jan 1973, this isn't applicable, so the toggle switches etc aren't an issue, however, as you'd no doubt be aware, the Clubbie range, as introduced in 1971, all had rocker switches and crash padding in order to comply with ADR21

 

https://infrastructu...sign/pdf/21.pdf

 

Mokes, being commercial vehicles, didn't have to meet these requirements.

Edited by Moke Spider, 30 December 2016 - 07:05 AM.

[timmy850]

Sarcasm doesn't translate over the Internet very well, I was just poking fun.

[sonikk4]

May I suggest we all wear safety glasses that are toggle switch proof. If you are going to be in a serious accident in a toggle switch kitted mini then I would like to know how the hell you are going to be impaled.

tiger99 seriously you need to step away from the keyboard. You are constantly berating anyone and everyone and to be honest we do not need people like you on this forum.

Your implied comments that people will be killed or seriously injured from a multitude of things fitted to a Mini is scaremongering.

We encourage reasonable conversations on TMF with technical knowledge backed up with pictorial information wherever possible. What we do not encourage is scaremongering, beliitlement of other members and Traders without reasonable cause and PROOF.

Take this as a warning. If you continue on this course then you will be removed from the Forum. It's that simple. We have put up with your diatribe for a long time now. We have tolerated you as you do have some good information BUT and it's a big BUT it's the other comments you make that are not needed.

[Cooperman]

3 pages on fitting ordinary toggle switches. Unbelieveable   .

If you want to fit them, then just do so. There will be no legal issues or MoT failures if you do.

There are many thousands of cars with toggle switches. My rally Rover 214 Si had a row of them both on the navigator's and driver's panels, like almost every other rally car. Never had any MoT issues. 

You want them, fit them. It is not a problem.

[Spider]

Sarcasm doesn't translate over the Internet very well, I was just poking fun.

 

Ah, I see. Maybe I'm just slow on the up-take too.....

 

 

3 pages on fitting ordinary toggle switches. Unbelieveable   .

 

Well, it's obviously a complicated process   (emoticon added so we get / see the sarcasm )

[Cooperman]

It's quite amusing really.

I have been rallying in all sorts of cars, both as a navigator/co-driver and a driver, since 1959 and I have had quite a few big crashes. I've seen a lot of other people crash as well. But in all those years I have never heard of anyone being injured by a toggle switch. I've seen injuries caused by bits of tree coming into the car, I've heard of crew getting a headache from hitting their heads on the roll-cage, breaking their wrist on the steering wheel, having a steering wheel break up and stick in their ribs, getting shoulder ache from the seat belts, hitting their head on the steering wheel through only wearing a lap strap, getting broken ribs from the high-G deceleration, being burned-to-death from through being trapped in a car which caught fire, getting cut from broken glass in a heavy roll-over.

 

In a Mini one big safety issue is the rubber hoses for the heater which pass inside the car. If a hose splits or lets-go the passenger is likely to get scalded legs and the immediate misting of the screen could cause a visibility issue/crash. That's why my hoses are always braided metal ones inside the car.

But injury from toggle switch impact? I've never encountered that, not have I ever heard of a car being refused an MoT due to having them.

What a lot of nonsense this all is. Just fit 'em and improve switch life & reliability.

[tiger99]

It would typically be the rear passenger's eye. But in asymmetric impacts the driver, or more likely, front passenger can find their head in that area.

I worked on crash test dummies a long time ago, and it was quite amazing where they ended up. The cars happened to be Minis, basically scrappers in 1986, which we would restore today, and many of them collapsed around the toeboard area, trapping the feet of the dummy. That was often due to rust, but it proved to be a weak spot anyway and is an area that can be strengthened by making the subframe mount reinforcements (for solid mount conversions) attach to the floor, inner sill and tunnel, and if a bit of tube or box section is added, even better. It was notable that very few of the other bits of Mini that collapsed in the impacts were seriously hazardous to the dummy if it remained restrained by a seat belt.

The old Minis had no rear belts and if dummies were in the rear seats they often "killed" the front seat dummies or became wedged between the seats with the head on or near the switch panel.

It was sad to see so many Minis destroyed, but at the time none of them were worth more than about £100.

[Cooperman]

I think if anyone is so concerned about the fact that classic cars were not designed to be 'crash resistant' they would be better off sticking to modern cars with a high safety rating. This thread has now moved on to structural integrity of a very old design, which is entirely different.

You can't start trying to make a classic meet current Euro-regulations as it's not what classic motoring is about. It is about driving a car with 'retro' feel and performance and enjoying things as they were. It is not about tying to make a 60-year-old design go like a modern car.

For goodness sake, let's get real here and just enjoy our old, slow, classic cars. If you are frightened about getting injured, then buy a big Mercedes, Volvo or BMW. You can buy and run a good one for less than the cost of a good rust-free classic Mini or other classic car.

And all this c**p because someone is fitting a few harmless toggle switches to their old classic car  .

One might wonder how some on here would handle the engineering of, say, a 1925 Austin 7, a 1930 Morris Minor or a 1935 Ford 8. Compare those to a 1959 - 2000 Mini in safety terms.  We cannot and shouldn't be trying to make our old slow classics into modern cars - they will never be and for that we should be pleased. They are, simply, fun and, in a word, 'Classic' in the same way an antique is special, or a steam engine or an old sailing ship.

[Mini Manannán]

I thought 'Toggle'gate' had died a death a page ago but much to my amusement it rolls on!  Long live Toggle-gate! 

[Scousemouse]

Hate to have been a CTDummy in Tigers place,he must have worked em to death

                                                                                                                                                   

Coopermans  Talking a whole lot of common sense,

[sledgehammer]

Edited by sledgehammer, 02 January 2017 - 11:17 AM.