15 replies to this topic

[adogcalledbear]

Something I've recently noticed is that all the BMC Works Mk1 Minis seem to be Morris-badged, and never Austin. Was it a deliberate policy to only rally under the Morris name? I'm talking about the Mk1s specifically.

 

I remember reading a quote from Paddy Hopkirk recently (though I can't remember where) that said that it wasn't unusual for a Mini to be badged Austin at one end and Morris at the other, or have either badge on the steering wheel, as the Works team would use whatever parts they had to hand... but I've never seen any photos of Austin-badged original cars - only replicas (like 363 GYP, that BMW now own).

 

Does anyone know anything definitive about this?

[Cooperman]

Timo always used a Morris badged car because he was involved with the Morris dealer in Finland.

I don't think there was any hard and fast rule, but remember, the identities of the 'works' cars were switched around to suit the department, so being mainly Morris would have made things easier in terms of what was shown on the log-book (V5 later on).

There certainly was one event when a car had Austin on the bonnet and Morris on the boot-lid, but this may have just been because of a replacement for a damaged part.

[mab01uk]

On the Tulip Rally 1966......

GRX310D started as a Austin Cooper S
but finished as a Morris Cooper S

GRX 5D started as a Morris Cooper S
but finished as an Austin Cooper S

 

 

 

According to the book 'RALLY' by John Davenport, it had to do with the sponsors of the drivers, and which dealer's they were associated with.
Austin and Morris were still trading as two "distinct" car marques with their own loyal customers back then, even though both were now part of BMC and many of the cars were like the Mini range identical and simply 'badge engineered, most towns still had a seperate Austin & Morris Dealership and most export countries also had separate importers - dealers etc.
This often meant that a Morris driver like Makinen wouldnt get behind the wheel, untill the works team had changed all the badges on the car. Both Makinen and Aaltonen were linked to (and partly paid by) the Finnish Morris importer. It therefore made sense to ensure their winning car was Morris badged.

BMC also altered some advertising photos of winning cars badges to suit the marque they were promoting.

 

Barrie Williams told a similar story....
The British Vita ETCC team in '68 'borrowed' a set of badges from a car on a dealers forecourt whilst overseas, in order to get a better trophy and more prize money by being the highest placed Morris or Austin whichever dealer had put up the biggest prize. As said back in the day the Austin and Morris dealerships were separate at home and abroad and often offered different prizes.

[adogcalledbear]

Thanks for that, I always wondered if it was true.

 

I did a lot of Googling and found LBL 606D, LBL 666, GRX 5D, GRX 55D DCRX 88B all badged as Austins.

 

I only found pics of CRX 89B badged as both Austin and Morris.

[Cooperman]

Note the Austins with Morris grilles and vice-versa.

[62S]

As well as the ones mentioned above AGU 780B, AJB 55B, DJB 93B, EBL 56C, EJB 55C, GRX 309D, JBL 172D, JBL 494D, JBL 495D, LBL 590E, LRX 828E, LRX 830E all appeared badged as an Austin Cooper S Mk 1 at some time in their BMC 'Works' competition career.

[rally1380]

I'm assuming the last of the works mini's (YMO 886J) was a British Leyland car and not an Austin....although my clubman is a 71 and that is an Austin.

[62S]

YMO 886J is registered as an Austin.

[rally1380]

YMO 886J is registered as an Austin.

 

There we go then.....an ex works Austin.

[62S]

 

YMO 886J is registered as an Austin.

 

There we go then.....an ex works Austin.

 

But not a Mk 1 which is what the OP specifically asked about.

[rally1380]

 

 

YMO 886J is registered as an Austin.

 

There we go then.....an ex works Austin.

 

But not a Mk 1 which is what the OP specifically asked about.

 

 

Missed that bit.....doh!

 

MK1, 2 or (technically) 3.......who cares, still an Austin

[adogcalledbear]

I'm only just catching up with this and yesterday noticed that 477 BBL (photographed alongside EJB) competed in '64 Monte Carlo as an Austin, but in other events - and in some of the 'Works tours' photos - as a Morris.

 

Really fascinating stuff from mab01uk... many thanks for that.

 

I was also interested in a Cooperman's comments about the 'identities' of the cars being switched around. I presume you mean chassis plates and registration numbers? I've heard about this in passing before, but does anyone know if it was actually true... and why would it have been necessarry?

 

 

Cooperman wrote:

...the identities of the 'works' cars were switched around to suit the department, so being mainly Morris would have made things easier in terms of what was shown on the log-book (V5 later on).

 

Edited by adogcalledbear, 02 February 2017 - 03:02 PM.

[62S]

I was also interested in a Cooperman's comments about the 'identities' of the cars being switched around. I presume you mean chassis plates and registration numbers? I've heard about this in passing before, but does anyone know if it was actually true... and why would it have been necessary?

Of course it was true - a picture on the Mk 1 forum

Different events require different spec. cars. The Finnish drivers generally, but not always, drove a Morris badged car etc.

[Cooperman]

All the works teams used to change identities around to suit the events they were doing. If, for example, they had a car prepared for an event which was set for tarmac and it was a forest event, they might well use a forest prepared car with the reg. no. of the tarmac car because it was taxed or for a number of other reasons. It really didn't matter to the entrants or the organisers.

 

In fact even some private owners switched plates. I knew a guy who had two fully prepared Mk.1 Escort Twin-Cams. But he only had one log book and one number. One was a tarmac spec and the other for forest use and the number plate was put on whichever he wanted to enter. Then he bought a written-off Mk.1 Twin Cam, used that identity on one of the rally cars and sold the parts off of the written of one which got him back the cash he had paid out to buy the written off one.

 

That sort of thing went on in rallying back in the '60's & '70's and may still go on today.

 

I know stuff like that went on with our 'works' Datsun 240Z's. One was RHD for one event, then LHD for the next after a crash, but it still had the same numbers!

 

The problem now is that these so-called 'ex-works' cars are fetching huge sums based on their supposed 'history in competition', but the true history will never be known. They have had changed identities, been re-shelled, been totally re-built and only the number is still the original.

 

But back then we were all just interested in winning rallies and never considered that 50 years later such a car might fetch over £100,000. They were just a means to an end back then. If only we had realised, I would have bought a few and stored them. Think what one of our old 'works' Datsun 240Z's would be worth now. I was once offered an ex-works Healey 3000 for £800 after the 1965 RAC when it had a small amount of 'Timo'-caused damage. That was the car which came second to Rauno's Cooper 'S'. I decided to buy a new Mk.1 Cortina GT instead for the same sort of money as I needed a car to use every day.

Edited by Cooperman, 04 February 2017 - 12:13 PM.

[mab01uk]

From Feb 2017 MiniWorld article "Abingdon's Secret Army"

 

Stuart Turner (Head of BMC Competitions Dept) quote:

" Ocasionally I'd receive a phone call to say car ABC123 was in a ditch, we'd have to substitute another MIni from the Works fleet. To avoid delays from documents  having to be re-typed, etc we'd take the chassis plate and registration from the crashed Mini and put it on the substitute car. When the crashed car was brought back to the Abingdon Works and rebuilt we'd put the old chassis plate and registration details back on again"