14 replies to this topic

[AJ109]

Hi,

 

Just some questions, as I'm seeking advice.

 

Car: 1995 Rover Mini Sprite  1275 SPI

 

Should this car have a immobiliser fitted as standard? and if so, where is it located? and can it be bypassed? if so, without a fob? as I have never had a fob key since owning the car.

 

My car started ok the other day but the oil light was flickering on/off, so turned engine off and checked oil pressure switch connection. Now cleaned up and re-made. Started engine back up, oil checked before start up, shows oil at normal level.

 

Engine ran as normal, for 10ish mins, so reversed off drive, and engine cut out, with a small amount of smoke exiting the off-side front, near the coil.

 

Starter motor would not engage, so engine would not turn over. upon opening bonnet, couldn't find any damage. But a burning smell was coming from the coil? But is there anything else to check around this area? Coil has since been replaced but still does not engage starter motor.

 

I have since found, the feed from the ignition to the starter motor has been lost. Does it, if it has one, go through the immobiliser? and through the ECU?

 

Please help, if possible, as a guy has looked at it 3 times now and no better off.    

 

This is my first post as I'm a new member, any suggestions would be highly grateful.

 

Ash

[cian]

Hey ash! Yes the immobiliser can be bypassed a few of my spi customers have had it done but I'm not sure how it is done

[FlyingScot]

Yes it should have an immobiliser unit if it's a UK model. Does it have the red led in the dash? Is it on?
Bypassing it isn't going to be discussed on a open public forum, all I would say i that there are two types of immobiliser fitted.
Sounds more like the MFU (relay pack) next to the servo.
Pinned threat on here.
FS

[Sprocket]

Depends on a few things.

 

up to Early 1995 3AS alarm (optional on the Sprite, fitted on the Cooper and Mayfair),

After early 1995 5AS alarm (optional on the Sprite, fitted on the Cooper and Mayfair)

 

My mid 1995 UK model SPi did not leave the factory with an alarm. With no alarm ECU fitted, the instead fitted a loop back box that looks identical to an alarm box. One way to identify whether there was an alarm fitted or not is to locate the alarm LED indicator (May be difficult if the car has changed from the factory spec, some people just remove stuff without knowing what its for). This is usually installed in the dash somewhere (Not sure where they would put it on the Sprite as there was no walnut dash), it will be a round black bezel about 12mm in diameter with a red LED in the centre. The LED will illuminate solid if you try and start the engine without first deactivating the passive immobilizer (the alarm doesn't have to be active at this point). You will find the location of the alarm ECU or the loop back box behind the dash/ dash liner mounted on a bracket on the bulkhead on the passenger side (right hand drive)

 

Most of the Rover alarm systems (3AS and 5AS used on the Mini) LED tend to indicate in a similar manor, so if all you have ever done is turn the key and the engine starts the factory fit alarm is either not fitted, or has been removed at some point.

 

Smoke and burning smell is a sure sign of an electrical fault. If you have no power to the main engine relay pack, you may well find that the fuse links in the wiring loom down near the starter motor have blown. I would be looking for the source of the problem before trying to repair the blown fuse links. This advice of course is speculation as there is little information to go on other than 'smoke' and 'will not start'.

 

Why do you think it might be an alarm/ immobilizer problem?

[AJ109]

Yes it should have an immobiliser unit if it's a UK model. Does it have the red led in the dash? Is it on?
Bypassing it isn't going to be discussed on a open public forum, all I would say i that there are two types of immobiliser fitted.
Sounds more like the MFU (relay pack) next to the servo.
Pinned threat on here.
FS

Sorry I've taken a while to reply. and thanks for yours. Any ideas on how to check weather the MFU Relay pack is faulty? and if so are replacements widly availible?

many thanks

[AJ109]

Depends on a few things.

 

up to Early 1995 3AS alarm (optional on the Sprite, fitted on the Cooper and Mayfair),

After early 1995 5AS alarm (optional on the Sprite, fitted on the Cooper and Mayfair)

 

My mid 1995 UK model SPi did not leave the factory with an alarm. With no alarm ECU fitted, the instead fitted a loop back box that looks identical to an alarm box. One way to identify whether there was an alarm fitted or not is to locate the alarm LED indicator (May be difficult if the car has changed from the factory spec, some people just remove stuff without knowing what its for). This is usually installed in the dash somewhere (Not sure where they would put it on the Sprite as there was no walnut dash), it will be a round black bezel about 12mm in diameter with a red LED in the centre. The LED will illuminate solid if you try and start the engine without first deactivating the passive immobilizer (the alarm doesn't have to be active at this point). You will find the location of the alarm ECU or the loop back box behind the dash/ dash liner mounted on a bracket on the bulkhead on the passenger side (right hand drive)

 

Most of the Rover alarm systems (3AS and 5AS used on the Mini) LED tend to indicate in a similar manor, so if all you have ever done is turn the key and the engine starts the factory fit alarm is either not fitted, or has been removed at some point.

 

Smoke and burning smell is a sure sign of an electrical fault. If you have no power to the main engine relay pack, you may well find that the fuse links in the wiring loom down near the starter motor have blown. I would be looking for the source of the problem before trying to repair the blown fuse links. This advice of course is speculation as there is little information to go on other than 'smoke' and 'will not start'.

 

Why do you think it might be an alarm/ immobilizer problem?

 

Hi Many thanks for your reply. Typically enough mine is neither. The one fitted to mine is a Lucas YWZ100060 and its a 3LB. I take it thats not standard for my car? also out of curiosity, I had a black box fitted when I first bought the car for insurance. When the box was installed it upset all the electrics on my car, like light etc. Could that have effected anything? Yeah of course again appreciate your comment, I'm lost on this myself.

 

many thanks 

[cian]

The ecu and black box are normally matched, I imagine retrofitting a black box ( immobiliser) would cause upsets but as you seem to have a potential non standard ecu that throws things too, you do fined matches sets of ecus and immobilisers on eBay

[Sprocket]

The ecu and black box are normally matched, I imagine retrofitting a black box ( immobiliser) would cause upsets but as you seem to have a potential non standard ecu that throws things too, you do fined matches sets of ecus and immobilisers on eBay

Depends on whether the car is the early 95 or the later 95 since the ealier 95 would have had the 3AS

 

 

Depends on a few things.

 

up to Early 1995 3AS alarm (optional on the Sprite, fitted on the Cooper and Mayfair),

After early 1995 5AS alarm (optional on the Sprite, fitted on the Cooper and Mayfair)

 

My mid 1995 UK model SPi did not leave the factory with an alarm. With no alarm ECU fitted, the instead fitted a loop back box that looks identical to an alarm box. One way to identify whether there was an alarm fitted or not is to locate the alarm LED indicator (May be difficult if the car has changed from the factory spec, some people just remove stuff without knowing what its for). This is usually installed in the dash somewhere (Not sure where they would put it on the Sprite as there was no walnut dash), it will be a round black bezel about 12mm in diameter with a red LED in the centre. The LED will illuminate solid if you try and start the engine without first deactivating the passive immobilizer (the alarm doesn't have to be active at this point). You will find the location of the alarm ECU or the loop back box behind the dash/ dash liner mounted on a bracket on the bulkhead on the passenger side (right hand drive)

 

Most of the Rover alarm systems (3AS and 5AS used on the Mini) LED tend to indicate in a similar manor, so if all you have ever done is turn the key and the engine starts the factory fit alarm is either not fitted, or has been removed at some point.

 

Smoke and burning smell is a sure sign of an electrical fault. If you have no power to the main engine relay pack, you may well find that the fuse links in the wiring loom down near the starter motor have blown. I would be looking for the source of the problem before trying to repair the blown fuse links. This advice of course is speculation as there is little information to go on other than 'smoke' and 'will not start'.

 

Why do you think it might be an alarm/ immobilizer problem?

 

Hi Many thanks for your reply. Typically enough mine is neither. The one fitted to mine is a Lucas YWZ100060 and its a 3LB. I take it thats not standard for my car? also out of curiosity, I had a black box fitted when I first bought the car for insurance. When the box was installed it upset all the electrics on my car, like light etc. Could that have effected anything? Yeah of course again appreciate your comment, I'm lost on this myself.

 

many thanks 

 

 I think you'll find that the YWZ100060 is just the loop back box I was talking about. There is no alarm/immobilizer fitted.

[AJ109]

Thanks again for the replies.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to test the Relay Module pack? As I've been following the Haynes manual and there is a relay inside that goes to the starter motor, I'm not getting power from the ignition to the starter motor. Anyway of testing this?
Thanks

[Sprocket]

Un plug the large connector from the relay pack and probe the pins in the connector with a volt meter to see if there is voltage at the relay pack first and foremost. Then we can go from there. From memory at least two of them will show voltage.

Edited by Sprocket, 04 February 2017 - 12:08 AM.

[AJ109]

HI

I've changed the relay pack, still no joy. When ignition is turned on and trying to start, only the starter motor relay pulls in. Took the pack to bits, pluged it in and seen starter motor relay pull in, but none of the others, like the Fuel pump relay, main relay and Manifold heater. Still no power coming off the brown and red cable from the relay pack to starter motor.

 

Does this suggest the ECU has packed up? or does the main relay inside relay pack have to be made to provide power to the ECU? which then sends power to the relevent relay and once pulled in sends power to the starter, fuel pump etc

please help as i have been miniless for 4 weeks and getting withdrawal symptoms      many thanks

[FlyingScot]

Most issues with the MFU (relay pack) are due to poor wiring. The MEMS ECU provides an internal ground to switch the relays. Look at the the pinned thread on here by Sprocket to which I added the pictures. Your Haynes manual runs through the sequencing of system.

FS

[AJ109]

Most issues with the MFU (relay pack) are due to poor wiring. The MEMS ECU provides an internal ground to switch the relays. Look at the the pinned thread on here by Sprocket to which I added the pictures. Your Haynes manual runs through the sequencing of system.

FS

Hi Scot how do I access these pictures? I can't seem to find and open them? Thanks, and many thanks for the reply

[FlyingScot]

http://www.theminifo...-functionality/

FS

[Sprocket]

Un plug the large connector from the relay pack and probe the pins in the connector with a volt meter to see if there is voltage at the relay pack first and foremost. Then we can go from there. From memory at least two of them will show voltage.