50 replies to this topic

[carneil3]

 rules apply for car age regarding MOT and tax in N.I. Pre 1960 for MOT and Pre 1974 for car tax.

[CityEPete]

But if the reversing lights are LED you can be pulled up by Plod as the Motor Vehicle Lighting Regulations specify the reversing light in terms of a 24 watt bulb, not in terms of lumens of light. Stupid, but that is how it is. It is the only light on the car with that stupid legal problem.

Have you got a link for this info? I'm not going to be happy or have a solution if I get stopped in my 16 reg Scirocco am I?

[olly33]

Mechanic/manager who I find a bit abrupt who has now come off his holidays tells me there is no retest charge as I am having the carbon setup by him.
I told him that the other mechanic could not confirm this and his words were "That's why you speak to the Secretary not the mechanic". Oh so I close my ears when the mechanic is talking in the same room.

[tiger99]

CityEPete, you "should" not get pulled up in a modern car that has gone through Type Approval unless you have modified it. The law seems to get changed to suit major non-compliance by mainstream manufacturers, for instance in the beginning every Passat driver was effectively a criminal due to the plastic petrol tank, so the law was changed, wrongly in my opinion, because soon after, on a Boxing Day, a relatively minor shunt on the M25 involving a Passat left several people in 2 of the cars dead as a result of the fire. I passed just after the fire was out, and the impact damage to the 3 or 4 cars involved was minor and on its own unlikely to have caused significant injuries, yet 3 or 4 burned to death as the plastic tank dropped all its contents on the road.  This was entirely predictable and was before VOSA existed, but the Department of Transport as it was has never shown much competence about anything. I will never have a vehicle with a plastic tank, having seen that carnage, and am just presenting it as an example of hoe the authorities give in to dangerous or illegal foreign goods. Bicycle mudguards and umpteen other things disappeared as well to keep the users of foreign imports legal. This was mostly late 1980s stuff but I assume it continues.

 

LED reverse lights by the same reasoning will eventually become legal, but when? Long overdue, but as of now, still illegal. Unlike plastic petrol tanks, it is a harmless change. They just need to specify the optical characteristics and mounting position, rather than irrelevances like the bulb rating. I estimate that the LED might be about 3 watts, but the lumens and light pattern are what matters. A CRT visible to the driver was banned a long time ago, but more recently satnavs squeezed through on a technicality as they use a LCD, not a big glass bottle containing a vacuum. So the law was changed, correctly this time, to cover display screens of any technology for the dashboard and satnav functions etc, but not allowing a TV set.

 

But a far bigger tidy-up is long overdue. I think that it will happen in the aftermath of Brexit, It would be a very good thing if manufacturers or importers of aftermarket lighting were required to have them properly type approved, so that we really could purchase a proper, legal LED replacement for the 389 stop/tail light etc, but we are not there yet. Headlight bulbs in existing headlights will not be coming any time soon, for numerous technical reasons.

 

If you Google for "Motor Vehicle Lighting Regulations" you should find the law as it now is but you may have to refer to lots of amendments and other documents to get the full picture.

 

There is one snag to be aware of with LEDs. A bulb gives out much the same light until it suddenly dies. An LED, and I have much experience of this, yet no satisfactory answer, degrades at an unpredictable rate, usually faster if run harder. Perversely, a few improve for a while. Many researchers have tried to account for it mathematically, but we just have to assume that a reputable brand will retain its output longer than a cheap, nasty one, as one thing that is agreed is that the cleanliness of the manufacturing process and the purity of materials are heavily involved. So it may be necessary for an LED light to be allowed to degrade to 50% of initial brightness over the life of the vehicle. I can see a new item in the MOT, measuring light output.... Most Mini owners these days do low mileage so less use of lights and it may not be a problem.

[CityEPete]

Well I bet the little suckers can't be changed without swapping the entire rear clusters so I hope they last a while. It's got a strip on both sides, better lights than a mini going forwards :-D

[CityEPete]

Being a facelift model all the rear facing lights are LED as standard now.

Edited by CityEPete, 23 March 2017 - 09:47 PM.

[Ethel]

They look too bright, as much as you can say from a photo. They're supposed to be an indication of the driver's intent not illumination. 

[CityEPete]

Well what am I supposed to do about it? Lol

[tiger99]

I woukd think about 5000 to 10000 hours of USE which is a lot for brake lights or indicators, but you might wear out side or tail lights in the life of a high mileage car driven mostly at night. The difficulty of replacement is my only technical objection. Oh, and some are visual irritants. I suspect that it is only due to sloppy design as many LED light clusters are fine.

Certain manufacturers charge ridiculous prices for replacement light units, even the traditional type. Expect to see businesses springing up to recondition light modules by replacing the LEDs. I would go for it myself if I was younger.

But LED headlights at this point are a no-hoper. They have the same problem as HIDS in sofar as as they do cause serious dazzle irrespective of the legally required provisions of self-levelling and washers. But they also are going to have a short life as they operate at high current density. Annoyingly they do not solve the problem of having to fit dip converters to go abroad. An LED headlight should use a matrix of small LEDS on a properly cooled substrate, with a tiny parabolic reflector behind each to make the light all come forwards, then just a simple projector lens to form the beam. The required pattern, main or dip, UK, EU or US would be simply formed on the matrix like any programmable display. A standard module, as common as an H4 bulb, could be used on any car, behind a clear outer glass of the car designer's choice. But it will not happen. Too much interest in making very fat profits from routine spares. (In that regard the Mini community is doing relatively well at the moment, with the exception of some poor quality tat, although the new MK 1 shell at £9995 is a bit steep, considering the bulkhead crossmember is said to be incorrect for a MK 1.)

The other thing that is bugging me about white LEDS at the moment is that they mostly use a UV LED and a phosphor to convert the UV to a reasonable approximation to white. There is some loss of efficiency in that process and the phosphor may degrade faster than the LED itself. The alternative is mixing red, green and blue to get white. Works rather well on TV and similar applications. It opens up the possibility of headlights being recalibrated automatically to the correct brightness and colour at every service to compensate for degradation. Not hard, the equipment would largely consist of a colour camera and PC.

Maybe someone will take up the challenge and do it?

[gazza82]

They look too bright, as much as you can say from a photo. They're supposed to be an indication of the driver's intent not illumination. 

 

You might want to take that up with VAG, PSA, Toyota, JLR, etc ..

[Ethel]

If I thought they'd listen I would. I can't be the only one who thinks cars are now designed and marketed to appeal to 5 year olds.

 

You get dazzled by ridiculously bright headlights even on dipped beam because roads aren't, and never were, perfectly flat. Front indicators are near impossible to see at night because they're built in to the headlights. High level brake lights are directly in your eyeline so you get blinded in queuing traffic...

 

... it's Friday and sunny outside too 

[tiger99]

I totally agree. The problem is that these abominations have been tested and are allegedly within the law, if only just, when they are new. Perhaps they have made an over-generous allowance for LED degradation as I discussed above?

 

The Motor Vehicle Lighting Regulations need updating to protect us from dazzle, with mandatory recall at the manufacturers expense, for vehicles which do not comply. But the expense fiddling duck island builders are going to be too busy with Brexit for several years to get anything useful done.

[CityEPete]

Imagine how long the reverse lights will take to get to 10'000 hours!

[monkey]

If I thought they'd listen I would. I can't be the only one who thinks cars are now designed and marketed to appeal to 5 year olds.
 
You get dazzled by ridiculously bright headlights even on dipped beam because roads aren't, and never were, perfectly flat. Front indicators are near impossible to see at night because they're built in to the headlights. High level brake lights are directly in your eyeline so you get blinded in queuing traffic...
 
... it's Friday and sunny outside too 

While we are having a moan what I hate is the cars that have DRL's and when an indicator is turned on the DRL that side turns off, looks stupid in my opinion, as do the led indicators on the rear of certain cars that light up one by one to form a line (best way of describing it lol)

[tiger99]

I believe that those are illegal. Imports from the USA?