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Advice Needed On New Panels


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#16 Mini Hex

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 10:17 PM

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Sorry wrong picture, this is the buckled panel.

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Here is the drivers side where most of the problems are. There is a rust hole near the air vent. The floor has rusted thought and has started eating the bottom of the panels attached to it.

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The front subframe mount has also started rusted

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Here's the other side, this has had a couple previous patches which have failed. The panels attached to it have also started rusting.

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Some more rust along the side of the floor

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The bottom of the doors are also rusty

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There is some rust appearing on the bulkhead which is worse on the other side.

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Could this just be treated with something?

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Here's the drivers side wing rust

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And the other

As you may notice this is my first mini :) it's going to be my first car and would like it to look good. It's a 1983 mini Mayfair, looks like it was originally a silvery blue but has been painted red with a white roof. I'm wasn't sure of how far I should go, new panels or patching the areas. I have borrowed a tig welder from someone I know, do you think I could get away with using it rather than a mig welder?

#17 tiger99

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 11:21 PM

All of that is fixable!

 

TIG welding is painfully slow compared to MIG and requires a lot more skill, but if you have that skill, yes you can use it, and the final result can look superb.

 

Many of these panels need complete replacement. Do not use chemicals to try to stop rust. If the metal is heavily corroded it must come out and be replaced. If the area has already been patched, it needs to come out and be replaced.

 

You only have two options in any case, replace a complete panel, or replace part of a panel with a continuous butt weld between the old and new. Where a new panel joins another it would originally have been spot welded. It is acceptable to use plug welds instead. All of this is required for the MOT. In most of the rusted areas partial panels can be purchased, door bottoms and drivers side front floor for instance.

 

What are the sills like? Do you have oversills fitted? If so, they must go as they will only accelerate corrosion.

 

How you proceed will depend on what facilities you have and how much time and money. I would suggest getting the centre section right first. You will need a drivers side A pillar and floor, and possibly localised repairs to the toeboard for a start.



#18 pete l

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 08:08 AM

+1 on what tiger says.

 

If there's rust, remove it, don't try and "kurust" it because it will be back in 2 months.

 

If you're going to do it, do it properly and have fun doing it.

 

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#19 Mini Hex

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 05:25 PM

I had a practice with the tig and it is really slow, I think it could be done. It doesn't have over sills. I believe they are the normal short ones with open holes. There isn't a lot of rust along the sills just a couple spots. The beam on th bulk head has rust pitting on the right hand side and a little on the left. What would you recommend to cure this? I have also borrowed an engine lift so the engine will be coming out this weekend:) Thanks for all the help!

#20 tiger99

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 11:44 AM

The rust on the right is caused by spilled brake fluid acting as a paint stripper and is very common. But take both damper top mounts off and check behind them for other nasties.

You need to mercilessly attack the rust with a twisted knot wire brush in a grinder (eye protection essential!) and ensure that when it is shiny metal it is still solid, no holes. Otherwise best to weld in a hew half crossmember.

Even after wire brushing there may still be specks of rust in the deeper pits, so you should use a phosphoric acid based product to clean it out, followed by a really good primer. Opinions differ on which brand is best...

The important thing is only to rely on chemicals for tiny pits, not the whole area.

#21 ings

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 12:49 PM

i bett you will find a lot of rust under the outer sills.



#22 tiger99

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 10:25 PM

You may want to start at the back, where at least some repair sections are needed, and see how it goes with the TIG. By the time you work forwards to the bulkhead, your skills will have greatly improved and you will have established whether you would be better (quicker) with MIG.

 

Just take one corner of the back end apart at once, not both, and it will not all go out of line. You can get partial panel sections for the rear edge of the floor and the corners, the bottom of the rear panel, etc, and these will give you good practice at neat butt welding.

 

Working forwards, it can be expected that you will need at least heelboard ends with the subframe captive nuts and stiffening brackets, and the closing panels nearby, and the stiffners in the bottom of the bins, These latter are often repairable or can be made at home. Then it will be time to fully assess the floor and sills, and maybe install partial floors. I don't think you need a full floor.

 

You should install suitable bracing before removing sills, and even then do only one at a time.

 

The best thing would be to start a project thread with lots of pictures so we can all see what you are doing and provide helpful advice.

 

Have fun!



#23 Carlos W

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 08:03 AM

The rust on the right is caused by spilled brake fluid acting as a paint stripper and is very common. But take both damper top mounts off and check behind them for other nasties.

You need to mercilessly attack the rust with a twisted knot wire brush in a grinder (eye protection essential!) 

 

Wear ear protection too, you'll find it far less tiring



#24 tiger99

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 10:50 PM

Sorry, I should have said so. I am usually very careful about safety matters. I should also have added good overalls and hand protection, i.e. strong gloves such as Kevlar. Leather may be ok, but Kevlar is said to resist penetration better. For the eye protection a full face shield rather than goggles may be best as it will protect the entire face from flying bits of wire from the brush. A bit of hot wire embedded in the chin or nose would not be funny. They clamp around the head, some types being able to flip up when required, and are not very expensive. I think I got mine from B&Q or maybe Screwfix, and it gets used successfully for house renovation at the moment.

 

Your ear and eye protection need to be compatible. The ear protectors I got from my previous employer, basically a pair of dummy headphones, will not fit well along with most full face shields, but a pack of disposable earplugs are fine.



#25 sonikk4

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 12:41 PM

Sorry, I should have said so. I am usually very careful about safety matters. I should also have added good overalls and hand protection, i.e. strong gloves such as Kevlar. Leather may be ok, but Kevlar is said to resist penetration better. For the eye protection a full face shield rather than goggles may be best as it will protect the entire face from flying bits of wire from the brush. A bit of hot wire embedded in the chin or nose would not be funny. They clamp around the head, some types being able to flip up when required, and are not very expensive. I think I got mine from B&Q or maybe Screwfix, and it gets used successfully for house renovation at the moment.

 

Your ear and eye protection need to be compatible. The ear protectors I got from my previous employer, basically a pair of dummy headphones, will not fit well along with most full face shields, but a pack of disposable earplugs are fine.

 

Disposable ear plugs are normally used in conjunction with certain types of ear defenders. Also there are still noise ratings for ear plugs as well.



#26 tiger99

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 09:52 PM

That is true. There are many types, for different needs. At one place I used to have to go, we needed the headphone type and, optionally for more comfort, a disposable plug in each ear, just to pass down one corridor on the ground floor of something large, where gas circulators were screaming continuously. Bad plant layout, it was fairly quiet where we were going, but no other way in.

 

I would not want to be ever exposed to 120dBA for a second (happened once when an idiot operating a PA system had massive feedback, and it hurt), or over 85dBA for a working day. I know people who have been permanently damaged by going to discos etc when they were young, and now can't hear much above 5KHz.

 

What we don't know yet is how loud a twisted knott brush really is. One day, not very soon unfortunately, I may be able to measure one. I am estimating that it may be about 100dBA at close quarters and so unless you have protection which attenuates by at least 15dBA you need to limit exposure time. But you would likely not be doing it for long continuous periods anyway. Well, I wouldn't, I would take frequent breaks from such horrid tasks.

 

Yet lots of people are going WAY above the permissible level with their stupidly powerful audio systems.... They will regret it one day, when it is too late.



#27 mattmiglia

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 09:44 AM

I bought a pair of ear defenders with built in radio - one of the best purchases ever, makes such a difference to long boring jobs like wire wheeling and grinding



#28 Steve220

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 08:44 AM

I bought a pair of ear defenders with built in radio - one of the best purchases ever, makes such a difference to long boring jobs like wire wheeling and grinding


I love those! I also found buying my neighbour a slab of beer soothes the sound from their side.

#29 mattmiglia

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 09:29 AM

I bought a pair of ear defenders with built in radio - one of the best purchases ever, makes such a difference to long boring jobs like wire wheeling and grinding

I love those! I also found buying my neighbour a slab of beer soothes the sound from their side.

Ha yeah if in doubt resort to bribary! I use the ear defenders for watching drag racing aswell so worth every penny

#30 jamesquintin

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 11:00 AM

Best thing to do would be a wire wheel in a drill and start stripping the paint back. Only then can you tell how far the rust has gone, where the patches begin etc...

 

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