46 replies to this topic

[Broomer]

I'm interested to know who builds or uses carbs these days ?

[Spider]

I still do work occasionally in the manufacturing sector and over the past 30 (or more) years, I've seen the red tape go from the sublime to the ridiculous where now the actually product that is being manufactured (and keeping the roof over their head so to speak) has become little more than a distraction.

 

Meetings, documents, JSA's, Safety Plans, Environmental Plans and how to get a leg up on the guy in the work station to the left while push the guy in the work station to the right in to a corner (to frame him) is all that matters.

 

The product is well forgotten about as if it's something that takes care of itself.

 

A Project Tender I am working on with a college just this week (to lay cables cables in the street) has a whole 82 page section dedicated as to how the contractor shall account for all Green House Emissions, yet the specification for the cables and all the alternatives was no more than a half page table.

 

It's largely because of this kind of madness that I've turned my back on working altogether.

 

 

Your boss drank the kool aid.......

I remember years ago when NASA decided to incorporate ISO 9001 into our documentation.

 

I recon ISO9001 series has got to be the world's second greatest hoax, second only to the Y2K scare back in 1999. I generally make a point of steering clear of companies who promote this in their spiel. It signifies that they are in fact poorly organised and as a result, quite inefficient.

 

As you've said, it suggests that they may churn out consistent concrete parachutes, but they may only churn out 1 every 4 weeks, as they all have to attend meetings and seminars over the other 3 weeks, and spend a further 4 days do a study on effects from the photocopier fumes on the spiders in the lunch room, where as the guy down the road who has no accredited documented system can churn out 4 parachutes a day, all the same and they will actually work.

 

.

[xrocketengineer]

One of the guys in my group back then used to say that "the process has become more important than the product". He was 100% right. For your entertainment, (I think I have actually been part of some of these):

 

http://dilbert.com/s...?terms=Iso 9001

 

http://dilbert.com/s...terms=Six Sigma

Edited by xrocketengineer, 15 April 2017 - 10:00 PM.

[Spider]

B Sdaddy, don't worry mate, it's just another fad for those with too much time on their hands, that will soon pass.

 

I think this one from the Rocket Man's recommended selection sums it up well;-

 

Edited by Moke Spider, 16 April 2017 - 01:56 AM.

[tiger99]

The Y2K scare was very real indeed and it is only because of hard work by lots of software engineers that very few things went wrong, and none of them in a devastatingly bad way. It was NOT SCAREMONGERING and if nothing had been done, lights would have been going out in many places, amongst other things. The gutter press, such as the Daily Fail, poked fun at it because in their pathetic journalistic ignorance they had no idea just how many gross malfunctions had been avoided.

 

And as for ISO9001, if it was applied by law to the supply of all safety critical items we would not have the current flood of dangerously defective wheel bearings and other stuff. The better suppliers such as Timken routinely work to ISO9001, but, alas, the notorious spivs in the supply chain do not, which is why you don't get to know where your generic rubbish masquerading as a wheel bearing actually came from.

 

By the way, ISO9001 has nothing to do with LEAN. LEAN works very badly where lots of odd jobs, all different, are done, and that includes most repair work, and also research and development. It has its place in regular production. Quality systems, of which ISO9001 is the most common, can be applied anywhere and always provide tangible benefit.

[b_sdaddy]

So then....

Last week, I decided to test the theory:

 

Set up stopwatch, and began to assemble. First, with just one piece up and then secondly with five pieces up.

 

The issue in practice with my particular application, is that I need an array of tools; some manual, and some on an air-line.

 

Constantly swapping is the nature of the beast, but with 5 or more up at once, it lessens the delays.

 

One unit assembled in 11 minutes. Five units in 49.

 

An approximate saving of 1 minute per unit or about 10%.

 

The problem comes with measuring: Sometimes the fixings wizz on. Sometimes you drop a washer.

 

But I can say for sure, that it is definitely NOT quicker (more lean), to assemble one of our units, as apposed to setting 5 up on the bench.

 

 

 

ps. Had a chat with my boss. Explained that micro-efficiencies are all well and good, for companies who are already at 99%.

 

I'm happy for Audi to have a room full of 'experts' scrutinizing down to the n'th degree, how to squeeze another 0,001% from production.

 

The issue I have, is that we're at about 70%, and have so many fundamental issues to address, that this 'lean drive' is premature.

 

He said nothing, but my line manager agreed with the analogy.

[xrocketengineer]

So, what this means is that 30 years ago somebody had already optimized the assembly process using the existing parameters, ie tools, parts, personnel etc. Any significant improvements beyond that might or might not be worthwhile since additional investment and/or recurring production costs would be incurred. Like: redesign the product for easier assembly, automated parts delivery, automated tooling and so on.

So, I think that you are right, your process is as lean as it can be. 

[jamesmpi]

We have similar arguments at work. It all depends on the complexity of the process and parts being assembled...

In our training course they use "the pen game" to try out different scenarios. Take a typical sprung loaded ball point pen and try to assemble as many as you can. Some groups assemble one whole pen at a time per person, other groups assemble one part per person. Logically option b is the quickest but no tools are involved so you cannot factor in time waste...
Lean manufacturing is just a holistic view on waste management (time / scrap / efficiency etc) you can only be lean once all waste is identified and removed (or minimised to its lowest level)

[Black.Ghost]

I have the problem of meetings for meetings' sake. My two up boss is on more than double I am, and knows a fraction of what she needs to. It's infuriating. She calls meetings, sets up working groups and generally sucks up to the department boss. As soon as you talk to her about anything in depth she has a way of bringing it back round to one of two topics. I'm currently in the process of looking for a new job because I can't stand my current office environment. There are 2 people in the office I can talk to, the rest annoy me. I also can't stand the middle classes who think they are better than the person next to them. There are a couple of those in my office as well!

As for Lean and all the other stuff, the problem these days is that half the management positions seem to want those skills and knowledge. If you don't get them, progress becomes somewhat more limited!

[Spider]

I have the problem of meetings for meetings' sake.

 

Reminds me of this, and while it may bring a chuckle, I think it's closer to the fact of it

 

[Mini Manannán]

 

I have the problem of meetings for meetings' sake.

 

Reminds me of this, and while it may bring a chuckle, I think it's closer to the fact of it

 

 

 

Brilliant!  It's now on the wall behind my boss' desk

[xrocketengineer]

As for Lean and all the other stuff, the problem these days is that half the management positions seem to want those skills and knowledge. If you don't get them, progress becomes somewhat more limited!

The issue these days is that people now are only concerned with their career advancement and not with doing a good and fulfilling job. My last boss was always looking to do all "right things" for her next career move. It amazed me that the day of a Space Shuttle launch she would be in the control room with us, but she was looking for NASA high rollers, politicians or VIP's that were there so she could go over to say "hi" and introduce herself. She was always involved in "leadership" training, either being trained or providing "leadership", reshaping the head of new hires and she was never available. It shocked me when new employees walked into my office and told me that this was the first time that they have been in supervisor's office without a previous appointment. They had worked for her as summer students when she was a supervisor and she was either gone most of the time or her time was very valuable.

But the thing that topped it all was when she told us that from all the (useless) emails that she sent us, the most important, where the ones related to employee career development. So, I concluded that we were in the business of launching careers and not rockets.       

[Spider]

 

 So, I concluded that we were in the business of launching careers and not rockets.       

 

 

Another Career CEO type.

 

I have noticed in more recent years, the growth industry in this Dept.

 

These Career Managers / CEOs go from business to business, like a swarm of locusts, medal with the business's core business, dismantle and ruin core parts of it, give themselves obscene 'salary packages', stay for 2 or so years, award themselves some ridiculous payout then move on.

 

They add no value to the businesses they infect and frankly are an infection that should be dealt with in the same was as TB - exterminated. I have no time nor tolerance for them.

[xrocketengineer]

 

 

 So, I concluded that we were in the business of launching careers and not rockets.       

 

 

Another Career CEO type.

 

I have noticed in more recent years, the growth industry in this Dept.

 

These Career Managers / CEOs go from business to business, like a swarm of locusts, medal with the business's core business, dismantle and ruin core parts of it, give themselves obscene 'salary packages', stay for 2 or so years, award themselves some ridiculous payout then move on.

 

They add no value to the businesses they infect and frankly are an infection that should be dealt with in the same was as TB - exterminated. I have no time nor tolerance for them.

 

That is exactly my point. The bosses were behaving like they were going to become CEO's of companies and they were training the new hires to be the same way. And these were civil servants! If you are intending to become rich and powerful, working for a government agency is the wrong place to be.

Edited by xrocketengineer, 27 April 2017 - 12:50 AM.

[Spider]

Just spotted on 'the page'