12 replies to this topic

[Mite]

Apoligies if this belongs in the technical section, the questions are mainly historical.

 

Acquired Chris Rees book - "The Complete Catalogue of the Mini" a while back and am interested in finding out more about the 1973 Mini Clubman wide-body proposal on page 196.

 

Is it known how the wide-body Clubman prototype's width compares to the regular Mini Clubman, additionally is there a connection with the wide-body Clubman to rumored E-Series powered Clubman prototypes being tested by BL that were allegedly derived from a shortened Allegro platform to cut costs (unless that refers to the early ADO88 project)?

 

 

Also have recently read of the fiberglass Chilean Minis using a 750 version of the A-Series for tax reasons, which was based on the 850 yet seemingly featured the same 58mm bore from the original 803 A-Series (creating a displacement of around 721cc) and was wondering whether it is known if there was any loss over power on the 750 compared to the existing 850 engines?

 

 

 

[mab01uk]

You might find some information on the AustinRoverOnline website:-

 

Mini Clubman development story

http://www.aronline....n/mini-clubman/

 

http://www.aronline....ean-variations/

 

You might also find some of below of interest:-

 

BMC CAR DIVISION EXPERIMENTAL DEPARTMENT REPORT, 22 NOV 1966, ADO15 GRP FIBREGLASS MINI BODY

TEST RESULTS CARRIED OUT IN 1966 ON A PROPOSED MINI BODY MADE OF GRP FIBREGLASS TO BE MADE OVERSEAS IN COUNTRIES WHERE IT WAS NOT POSSIBLE TO PRODUCE STEEL PANELS

 

 

"Engineered by Peel in the Isle of Man. BMC made 6 from the Peel moulds. The whole manufacture was done in Chile including the body shell.

Only 2 of these GRP BMC Mini prototypes are known to survive."

 

 

 

Edited by mab01uk, 20 April 2017 - 07:05 PM.

[Mite]

Am aware of the information found at ARonline, however it still does not delve into the 1973 wide-body Clubman prototype in Chris Rees book and was hoping someone here would be able to answer my query as have asked around without much success.

[Spider]

Thanks mab01uk for finding and sharing that interesting info on the GRP Minis that BMC were considering. They really did have a very active think tank / R & D Section.

[mab01uk]

In later years for the Minki-II project under BMW ownership it was decided to widen the classic Mini bodyshell by 50mm just enough to get the standard ‘K’ series four cylinder engine in......

 

"This would also give a better driving environment, and whilst we were chopping the shell, we might as well lengthen it slightly as well, as we knew from Minki-I experience that we were going to end up with the front seats further back to suit the jointed steering column. It was important that the car still looked like a Mini, so a painted Mini bodyshell was sawn down the middle, and the two halves slid apart the calculated amount necessary to see if it still looked acceptable. The required extra width was 50mm, and the extra length was also 50mm. The look was acceptable in width, and also in length as long as the increase was in the doors."

http://www.austinmem...d-29/index.html

Edited by mab01uk, 20 April 2017 - 10:34 PM.

[mab01uk]

According to the Rob Golding Mini book eight inches went into the width of the wide bodied Clubman but the economics of increasing width were prohibitive and the car got no further than the factory vehicle pool which suggests it was more than a mock up.

 

Edited by mab01uk, 20 April 2017 - 10:58 PM.

[Spider]

Thanks again mab01uk.

 

Minis I've found to be OK on width, certainly wouldn't want them any narrower, however, our Moke I've always felt could have been 40 or 50 mm wider. The big side boxes shoves the seats hard together and you're very much shoulder to shoulder with your passenger.

[mab01uk]

That other famous Issigonis designed car the 'Morris Minor' was made wider before launch.......

 

"Issigonis wasn’t entirely happy with the Minor’s appearance. The Minor was only 57 inches wide and he thought it looked too tall and too narrow. He therefore had one of the prototypes cut down the middle and the two halves moved apart until it looked pleasing to the eye. It was the left to Reg Job to redraw the body to incorporate the extra 4 inches to the width. On the final car, the only place this could be seen was on the bonnet, which had a raised section down the centre. Some parts had already gone into production, including the bumper bars and valance. These were cut in half and metal strips inserted to make up the extra 4 inches in width. These fillet plates can clearly be seen on early Minors. This also meant an increase in track which could only improve the car’s already exceptional road holding. It also meant extra space for passengers and luggage."

http://ourclassiccar...r-1000-history/

Edited by mab01uk, 21 April 2017 - 06:31 AM.

[Mite]

Thanks mab01uk

 

So the Wide-Body Clubman was indeed the same length as the Allegro. While an updated Mini could probably get away with an increase of 50mm in width and wheelbase as on the Minki-II (or enough to at least fit an end-on gearbox), an increase of 8-inches in the width would have been too much.

 

Though have seen others elsewhere ponder the idea of a theoretically low-cost "SuperMini" via a SWB ADO16 or Allegro platform.    

[mab01uk]

The ultimate wide Mini?

http://www.motorgrap...68_a155734.aspx

[Mite]

Glad it remained a concept... , the only thing missing is a Mini-based tall-wagon microvan.

 

Read that a sub-Mini 2+2 variant was looked at, which made me wonder if a 2-cylinder A-Series would have been compact enough for such a car compared to other proposed powerplants? 

[mab01uk]

Write up and photo below of the 2 cylinder A-Series for those who don't have the excellent Mini Book by Jon Pressnell.............

[Mite]

Have the same book myself.

 

While it is uncertain whether the 2-cylinder A-Series limitations could have been overcome for production despite some believing it was possible. I cannot help but wonder whether the 2-cylinder engine was compact enough to fit into a shortened 2+2 Mini, similar to the pre-9X Mini-Mini project (with 9X engine) mentioned in both Jon Pressnell's book as well as in Gillian Bardsley's Issigonis Biography (not sure if any other books mention the Mini-Mini project).