43 replies to this topic

[ChrisKelly]

Hi Team (...and calling all Sprockets and FlyingScotts....help!)
 
Pardon me if this is not the correct place for a question. Please let me know and I'll fix it. Previously added to SPI topic by Sprocket but started a fresh topic just in case.
 
Proud new owner of a 1998 Rover Mini MPI, from Japan I believe. It is the air conditioned model.. One month into ownership and having real problems starting the car guys. Any help and guidance would be wonderful!
 
Issue:   

• On ignition it fires and runs for about 2-3 seconds. It then stops immediately.

Symptoms:

• ​Over time since ownership, would start perfectly in the morning. After a short blat to coffee shop, didn't like starting again (would run for 2 seconds and cut out). This has eventually turned into the current problem, which is that it won't stay running at all.
• ​After a few tries, it would jump to life.
• ​When it runs, it runs perfectly. Even when slowing down for lights or roundabouts, it wouldn't try and stall
• On nearly every turn of the key from off to ignition on, I can here fuel pump prime the line.
• It has started to smell flooded. However, I don't know if this is because of all the testing I am doing. 
• It has started spitting black wet crap from the exhaust when I attempt to start her. Not sure if this is also related to the continual efforts trying to start her though.

​​What have I Tried:

• ​​ I have reset the inertia switch. I have also tried bypassed the inertia switch by bridging wire between two points on connector to switch. 
• Thought it might be the immobliser, but I never received a key fob from previous owner. Brought and re-programmed one from good old UK. Seems to mobilise and de-immobilise the car as the alarm siren now works!
• As mentioned, I can hear the fuel pump prime, so I don't think it is that.
• I have checked the coloured hoses (vacuum tubes?) running through engine bay. These look like aftermarket silicon ones to me. They look ok.
• I will mention, that I did disconnect the battery early on in order to address small patches of rust in the boot. ...This is what prompted me to think I had awoken the immobilser.
• Also, I did get a new radio installed. It would be wise of me to remove it and see what the lads might have caused behind the scene. I have not done this yet.
• I have checked the fuses under dash near the drivers side foot well. All good.
• I have checked the 30amp fuses behind the ECU. All good
• I have unplugged the ECU to check for damage to the wiring loom. All seems OK.  

Strange Things:

• The Idle Air Control Valve has been disconnected! There is a spare/old valve connected to the wiring harness that just sits there floating in my engine bay! Another IACV is fitted to the manifold, but it was not plugged into the wiring loom!...what the?
• vacuum solenoid valve (I think that's it from the part number denso 192000) is connected but the wiring does not go anywhere, it has been cut!
• I have noticed the Air Temperature sensor is a bit loose. As in, it is screwed in but will not tighten properly. Someone has added a washer spacer...probably to try and get the thread to bite.

The above "Strange Things" makes me think someone is trying to completely bypass one of the systems in the car. 
 
I have ordered an ACR4 unit as I want to learn to debug and fix this stuff for myself. It should arrive within 2 weeks. I have held off on the temptation to just purchase a handful of sensors and relays, but if that's what it takes?! It feels like either the engine is being starved of air or fuel for some reason, as it cranks and fires no worries but cuts out after using the initial spurt of fuel and air. 
 
Please find attached some images that show the IACV, ECU model and engine bay that may point the gurus to something immediate.  
 
Thanks Lads, cheers,
 
Chris

 
 

[ChrisKelly]

A quick note to add that, although I've read in other posts the Japanese models are actually SPI's, I actually think mine might be an MPI. My reasoning bein, I can't find a fuel trap nor any hose going into the ECU at all. It just has the two connectors (black and red). Also, the model number of my engine Relay Pack is MPI I think. YWB100970.

I will upload the images that should accompany tomorrow.

[jamesquintin]

I would start by checking the loom behind the airbox. Lot of posts about wirining rubbing in this area causing intermitten problems like this

 

Q
 

[bmv133]

Mpi always have front radiator and two injectors and ecu references only could be mkc104290, mkc104291 or mkc104292

 

If your car has two injectors like

http://www.minispare...|Back to search

It is an mpi

 

First, reconnect IACV , vacuum solenoid valve and reset ecu code errors with an acr4 (or similar)

 

 

In any case (spi/mpi) check crank sensor http://www.minispare...ic/ADU7340.aspx

 

In addition, in mpi check http://www.minispare...|Back to search

 

Regards, Jaime

[FlyingScot]

Pics didn't work, but if it's a true JDM MPI this would,be unusual to say the least.
Starting and cutting out means normally the crank sensor as the MFU (relay pack) will prime the system (pump runs for 5-7 secs) then no crank signal means the ECU cuts the fuel to prevent a fire/ engine damage if crank not rotating.
ACR 4 will give you most of the clues, does the car have a plug next to heater in th cabin?

FS

[buznout]

Watching the auctions over the last year, the Japanese imported a heap of U.K. MPI cars then had AC units fitted. The AC compressor body should be fitted backwards into the space where the side radiator was and the outlets should be in the passenger footwell not in the dash.

[ChrisKelly]

Thanks very much for your quick replies James, bmv, FlyingScot and buznout. ​It's amazing what helpful suggestions do for moral. You blokes are legends!

 

• Great suggestion about the loom behind the manifold. The loom appears to be fine. I did notice one nick in a wire for the Inertial switch (green wire I think), but that was all. She is old, but done only 37,000 miles (60,000kms), so everything actually looks and feels pretty tight. You are right though, it doesn't take much for the wiring to start looking shabby.
• Can confirm my radiator is front mounted, and it looks like it has two injectors (mounted on a rail at the front of the manifold?). The ECU number is also mkc104292 as suggested. Thanks for the confirmation! The seller did mention it was apparently a rare one, a twin injection mini from Japan. Also, as buznout suggested, yes, the air con outlets are mounted in the footwell of passenger side....a good ride home in summer....if you're leg of ham.
• FlyingScot and bmv....I actually just lashed out and bought a relay pack, crank shaft sensor, air temp sensor and a few spare regular relays.....on top of the ACR4 unit. I could hear what actually sounded like a delayed closing/opening of a relay from time to time. This would occur well after I had tried to start her, when i was under the bonnet swearing. Thank you for this suggestion

 

Out of interest, how did it run for a month without IACV and solenoid connected? What black magic might have made that happen?!

 

Pictures are attached, which show model numbers of relay pack and ECU, the engine bay and the sundry mystery of the disconnected solenoid and ICAV.

 

 

P.S. Might I also ask the best place to source a suitable engine loom/harness for this model....my plums tell me to renew the wiring and feel peace of mind hahaha.

 

Thanks you again lads!

Attached Files

•  IMG_3720.JPG   73.35K   35 downloads
•  IMG_3721.JPG   67.24K   25 downloads
•  IMG_3722.JPG   55.73K   11 downloads
•  IMG_3723.JPG   71.18K   4 downloads
•  IMG_3725.JPG   74.43K   15 downloads

[ChrisKelly]

Sorry FlyingScot, Yes, if you mean the 16 pin socket adjacent to the steering column in the footwell? I used it to reprogram a key fob, is that the one?

[MacGyver]

Looks like an mpi...
With air-conditioning... 😐
Me want one! 😮

Edited by MacGyver, 22 May 2017 - 10:58 AM.

[Sprocket]

With the later Jap export models, anything manual is MPi, and anything automatic is SPi. Prime reason for that is the kickdown linkage.

 

Temperature related failures are usually associated with the coolant and air temperature sensors, a faulty sensor or wiring will make the ECU use a fixed default value which is somewhere between a cold and warm engine, coolant default is 60c and air temp default is 35c. Disconnecting the coolant temp sensor on the MPi will also cause the fan to start and prevent engine overheat as now the ECU cannot determine the coolant temperature.

 

The crankshaft sensor can and does suffer from heat soak, which often shows up as an engine that will start when cold, but not when hot, though allowing the engine too cool a while, it will re start. With the MPi there is also the camshaft sensor to contend with, which for all intent in purpose is the same device as the crankshaft sensor and as such can suffer the same fate. The thing with the camshaft sensor is that while the ECU might see the crankshaft sensor and start the fuel pump, if it doesn't see the camshaft sensor, it doesn't know when to fire the injectors or spark. (Added complexity  )

[Sprocket]

Thanks very much for your quick replies James, bmv, FlyingScot and buznout. ​It's amazing what helpful suggestions do for moral. You blokes are legends!

 

• Great suggestion about the loom behind the manifold. The loom appears to be fine. I did notice one nick in a wire for the Inertial switch (green wire I think), but that was all. She is old, but done only 37,000 miles (60,000kms), so everything actually looks and feels pretty tight. You are right though, it doesn't take much for the wiring to start looking shabby.
• Can confirm my radiator is front mounted, and it looks like it has two injectors (mounted on a rail at the front of the manifold?). The ECU number is also mkc104292 as suggested. Thanks for the confirmation! The seller did mention it was apparently a rare one, a twin injection mini from Japan. Also, as buznout suggested, yes, the air con outlets are mounted in the footwell of passenger side....a good ride home in summer....if you're leg of ham.
• FlyingScot and bmv....I actually just lashed out and bought a relay pack, crank shaft sensor, air temp sensor and a few spare regular relays.....on top of the ACR4 unit. I could hear what actually sounded like a delayed closing/opening of a relay from time to time. This would occur well after I had tried to start her, when i was under the bonnet swearing. Thank you for this suggestion

 

Out of interest, how did it run for a month without IACV and solenoid connected? What black magic might have made that happen?!

 

Pictures are attached, which show model numbers of relay pack and ECU, the engine bay and the sundry mystery of the disconnected solenoid and ICAV.

 

 

P.S. Might I also ask the best place to source a suitable engine loom/harness for this model....my plums tell me to renew the wiring and feel peace of mind hahaha.

 

Thanks you again lads!

 

 

Top row second picture from the left, I have no idea what that solenoid is for, it might not even meant to be there, but it may be something to do with the A/C, not sure. More pictures required showing where the hoses disappear off to and why there are lose end wires over the rocker cover?.............

[ChrisKelly]

Good on you Sprocket. Thanks very much for the detailed reply. Just in case, and based on your advice, I have a camshaft sensor on the way too.....I'd rather see most of my critical sensors refreshed from now on anyway, to be honest. 

 

Regarding the loose wires over the rocker cover. They are actually from the mystery solenoid valve (see attached imagery where i have highlighted the course of the piping). The wires have no plug and were simply hanging down through the engine bay! I can't seem to see where the solenoid should wire into, so I am actually tempted to fix everything else around the IACV and this solenoid, and leave them for the moment.

 

There are two pipes that go into and out of that mystery device. One pipe comes from or into, just above the butterfly valve on the main air-inlet on the manifold; and the other comes from or into, just below the IACV. So in effect, this device coupled with the IACV, were doing absolutely nothing. 

 

Thanks to all for your thoughts so far, please keep them coming as you think of things I can check. My ACR4 should be hear within next day or two. I'll continue to report back to you guys on this!

 

P.S. I have also added a cheeky show-off picture for those interested. She is such a trophy wife though, at the moment

 

 

Attached Files

•  Show Off Picture.JPG   55.58K   19 downloads
•  Overll Mystery Solenoid.JPG   44.36K   27 downloads
•  Manifold Mystery Solenoid inlet.JPG   82.78K   17 downloads
•  IACV Mystery Solenoid Inlet.JPG   37.52K   16 downloads
•  Foot well Plug.JPG   93.33K   19 downloads

[buznout]

Ahhhh I remember looking at this one on Carsales and I think I saved the sales pictures somewhere too. Good to see another one in NSW

[bmv133]

Hi again...I own LHD 1997 mpi sportpack air con as yours...(generalView.jpg)

 

First of all, I suppose you use Mini WorkShop Manual to improve your knowledge about MPi mini...just in case, you can download http://www.uscars.bi...CD_wmxn990e.pdf

 

I understand you have to 2 IACV, one connected to blue connector and one disconnected. You must eliminate one of them... I suppose one of then is damaged (in following emails I can explain you how to check them, if you want...)

 

As you can check in IACV_hoseFromThrotleBodyToIACV.jpg, there is only one hose from throtleBody to the IACV. The ECu mkc104292 (the same as mine) controls the idle modifying the air flow via IACV, so IACV must be connected to blue connector

 

In addition, there is another hose that connects throtleBody to canister purge valve as you can see at Canister_hoseFromThrotleBody_part1.jpg and HoseToCanisterValve_part2.jpg and check on page 99 in Rave_CD_wmxn990e.pdf

The Ecu controls Canister Purge Valve too, so it must be conected to ECU via 3 ways black connector (CanisterValve.jpg)

 

 

The canister is near a shock absorver (different side depending on LHD or RHD) as you can see at CanisterValve.jpg

 

I understand your mystery solenoid is canister purge valve, but not original...I think you must buy an original one....and connected it ...

 

 

About foot well plug, ... the connector with blue wires is a relay and the gray connector could be:

- related with AC thermocontact  as you can check at RoverMiniAC.pdf ... if you disconnect gray connector perhaps... air con stop working...

- related with heater box motor... i´m not sure....

 

Rememeber to reset Ecu errors codes using ACR4 or similar... Furthermore, there are four persistent error codes that you can´t eliminate...because mpi doesn´t use these sensors

 

"07 inlet air

temperature sensor circuit logged"

"09 o2 sensor 1

circuit logged

sensor output"

"07 inlet air

temperature sensor circuit active"

"09 o2 sensor 1

circuite active fault sensor"

 

 

 

Regards, Jaime

 

Attached Files

•  GeneralView.jpg   76.69K   21 downloads
•  Canister_hoseFromThrotleBody_part1.jpg   84.28K   21 downloads
•  HoseToCanisterValve_part2.jpg   65.78K   15 downloads
•  IACV_hoseFromThrotleyBodyToIACV.jpg   65.06K   13 downloads
•  CanisterValve.jpg   71.22K   10 downloads
•  Canister.jpg   50.42K   12 downloads
•  Rover Mini AC.pdf   1.26MB   37 downloads

[genpop]

Hi,

if nothing else works,then take off the catalyst and check if it is free!