43 replies to this topic

[ChrisKelly]

Todays quick update:

 

I can juuuuuuust keep the car running if I feather the throttle and keep it above about 3000rpm. Giving it curry like this seemed to stop it from cutting out. As soon as I allow the revs to drop, It dies. ....hmmmmm

[Sprocket]

Sort the idle air out and make sure that is working correctly. If you remove the whole valve from the manifold, you should be able to see and hear the valve motor when you key on the ignition (without starting the engine) and key off again. When you key off the motor should drive full closed and then open up to the determined starting position based on coolant and air temperature.

 

Look at the MAP sensor reading, when the engine is running with very little load or throttle, MAP should be low (500mmHg or 35kpa absolute).

[Sprocket]

Just looking at the throttle position reading......... does it change when the throttle is operated?

 

Don't expect the ACR to tell you what is wrong, it is YOU that needs to take the information is provides, and diagnose the fault

[bmv133]

Hi Sprocket...

 

I agree with you, ACR4 only give us clues,   

 

Hi again ChrisKelly...

 

In ACR display ,the state of Throttle Position must switching in between off and on when you press it

 

When you reconnect IACV after clean and lubricate/grease it, switch on and off at least 8 or 10 times to fit automatically stepper motor

 

Two more things you can check....

 

- With air filter off, check if the butterfly in throttle body is not locked. It must open and close very soft, if not.... disassemble the shaft and lubricate/grease it

- You can chek throttle potentiometer  (http://www.minispare...|Back to search) with a multimeter, it must varies resistance...

 

 

Good look !!, is not a car is a Mini,.....

[ChrisKelly]

Hahahha too right Jaime. And thanks Sproket, I'll give the IACV a visual check of operation tomorrow morning. I might give you blokes a short break from this aiy ;) I'll report back once I've got some decent findings.
Thank you chaps!

[hennasxi]

Thought it might be worth mentioning, only SPi cars were built for Japan, both manual and Auto Jap cars all had air-con from late 96 and were all SPi (but based on an MPi block with coil pack).

 

Your cars talked about here are UK / European standard MPi's which have had air-con retro fitted at some point.

 

Only engine codes made from late 96 onwards decode as follows (Mg Rover data) - there are a couple of odd-ball extra ones for Paul Smiths, but all minis from chassis 134455 onwards should be one of these

 

12A2EK71 A+ 1275cc Spi Japan, Air con, 10.1:1 compression ratio  3.21:1 final drive manual

12A2DK72 A+ 1275cc Spi Japan, Air con, 9.4:1 compression ratio  Auto MkII b 3.27:1 final drive

12A2LK70 A+ 1275cc 2.76:1 final drive manual        

Edited by hennasxi, 29 May 2017 - 02:35 PM.

[bmv133]

Hi Hennasxi,

 

Thanks for information,....!!

 

At end of Mini production, at least in Spain, you could order an MPI Rover Mini with air con

 

They are original mpi, with front radiator, 2 injectors, 2.76:1 final drive manual, ecu (mkc104290, mkc104291 or mkc104292)

 

The air con is a set of:

- 1 compressor TAMA R134 that  turning upside down alternator

- 1 heater box (heater matrix + evaporator). The heater box replaces original, is not a plus

- 2 condensor (one fit in the machine on the passanger side with fan and the other, without fan, in rear subframe)

-1 one receiver drier with a binary valve (not trinary)

 

If you want, I can post photos,....

 

And I know they were connected to the ECU as you can check in Rover Wiring Diagrams in previous messages in this topic... but I can´t find one to contrast... they are very rare ....

 

On the other hand, I suppose, there were also units where air conditioning was coupled after the unit reached the dealer, and, these cars have no interconnected ECU to air con.

 

Could this explanation be possible?

 

Regards, Jaime

Edited by bmv133, 30 May 2017 - 08:44 AM.

[Aria Aradhea]

Hi Hennasxi,

 

Thanks for information,....!!

 

At end of Mini production, at least in Spain, you could order an MPI Rover Mini with air con

 

They are original mpi, with front radiator, 2 injectors, 2.76:1 final drive manual, ecu (mkc104290, mkc104291 or mkc104292)

 

The air con is a set of:

- 1 compressor TAMA R134 that  turning upside down alternator

- 1 heater box (heater matrix + evaporator). The heater box replaces original, is not a plus

- 2 condensor (one fit in the machine on the passanger side with fan and the other, without fan, in rear subframe)

-1 one receiver drier with a binary valve (not trinary)

 

If you want, I can post photos,....

 

And I know they were connected to the ECU as you can check in Rover Wiring Diagrams in previous messages in this topic... but I can´t find one to contrast... they are very rare ....

 

On the other hand, I suppose, there were also units where air conditioning was coupled after the unit reached the dealer, and, these cars have no interconnected ECU to air con.

 

Could this explanation be possible?

 

Regards, Jaime

 

I have never seen a European-spec MPi Minis with factory-fitted aircon! Can you please post pictures of it please? I'm really intrigued especially with the mention of 2 condensors (why? Jap-spec Minis can make do with just one mounted in the inner wing...) and the heater/blower/evaporator all-in-one box. Very interesting...

[bmv133]

Hi Aria....

 

I know it´s a very strange configuration... I was looking for it 10 years.....

 

I´ve improved the system changing binary dryer (only controls pressure) with a trinary dryer (controls temperature and pressure). Currently, compressor and condensor1-fan runs separately due to this,....It´s better because previusly they ran together and alternator was stressed....

 

The heater box has a small evaporator and heater matrix in...you can use the original air-pipes....

 

Regards, Jaime

Attached Files

•  originalDryer_binary.jpg   35.43K   8 downloads
•  ActualDryer_trinary.jpg   69.89K   17 downloads
•  fanAndCondensor1.jpg   49.79K   16 downloads
•  Condensor1.jpg   47.85K   13 downloads
•  Condensor2.jpg   59.67K   12 downloads
•  TamaCompressor.jpg   52.91K   18 downloads
•  AACC_boxWith internalEvaporator.jpg   44.77K   18 downloads

[xrocketengineer]

That seems so weird! The front condenser air flow is restricted by the ECU and the rear one is next to the silencer.

[Aria Aradhea]

Hi Aria....

 

I know it´s a very strange configuration... I was looking for it 10 years.....

 

I´ve improved the system changing binary dryer (only controls pressure) with a trinary dryer (controls temperature and pressure). Currently, compressor and condensor1-fan runs separately due to this,....It´s better because previusly they ran together and alternator was stressed....

 

The heater box has a small evaporator and heater matrix in...you can use the original air-pipes....

 

Regards, Jaime

 

Wow... Very interesting. Thanks for the pictures!

 

I am guessing the reason the use 2 condensors is - as xrocketengineer said - because of the restricted airflow. Japanese Minis put their ECUs more to the front of the car instead at the side, that's why they have way better airflow going to the condensor.

 

The heater/evaporator; I'm guessing you need to shut the heater valve completely down in order to get cool air, otherwise A/C will be useless, right?

[bmv133]

It´s so weird, I agree...!!!  LOL !!!

 

But find Google Images:  Rover mini mpi front radiator air conditioner

 

For instance, another one, as mine, with Front Radiator and AACC

http://www.bing.com/...electedIndex=15

 

 

To improve the system:

 

1. As I said before, I optimized dryer with a trinary valve

 

2. I've installed an additional heater valve as you can check at AdditionalHeaterValveTap.jpg and AddtionalHeaterValve.jpg

   The reason: Original heater pipes contain a lot of boiling water so I decided to install another one outdoor, 

 

3. I've deleted FreshAirPipe.jpg and, similar to left side air fresh pipe, I modified FreshAirRightSideModified.jpg

 

4. The fan associated with condensor 1 only runs when the R134a gas temperature is so hot and works by drawing air from the outside but, with the condensor 2, the area of cooling is greater and aacc system runs perfectly, at least here, NortWest Spain,.... LOL !!!

 

 

Attached Files

•  FreshAirRigthSideModified.jpg   54.23K   6 downloads
•  freshAirPipe.jpg   16.05K   3 downloads
•  AddtionalHeaterValve.jpg   61.88K   8 downloads
•  AdditionalHeaterValveTap.jpg   69.95K   7 downloads

[ChrisKelly]

Hi All,

 

Sorry it has taken so long to close of this issue. For those wondering, the below is a summary of the issue and the cause. A special thanks to bmv133, Sproket and FlyingScot for their help!

 

1. Car developed starting issues. Would take multiple attempts to crank and fire, but would eventually run. Car would run perfectly once started
2. Above problem got worse over a month or so, until it would crank, fire and run for two seconds, then cut out.
3. IACV was bypassed by some dodgy buggers. Replaced with new one.
4. Replaced fuel filter and fuel pump, as thought fuel supply was the issue.
5. Replaced Crank Sensor and Cam shaft sensor.
6. Replaced air inlet temperature sensor....just because it was there to be changed ;)
7. Checked immobiliser
8. Checked inertial cutoff switch.

Bit the bullet and took it to a mechanic who specialises in old MG's. .....he rang me an hour later with the car running. His solution was a hard thump to the ECU, which obviously temporarily re-connected a broken wire in the board. Upon dismantling the ECU, he found a wire had been scolded and completely broken. He re-soldered the wire and re-installed the ECU (temporarily). The car started all day.

 

Have purchased a Specialist Components, after-market ECU, wiring loom and throttle body kit, which was something i was looking into anyway before this went pear shaped.

 

Thanks very much again, to all, for you help with this. I am actually thankful it happened as it forced me to stick my nose in the car and learn how it works.

[bmv133]

Hi again, ChrisKelly,...

 

Congratulations....!!!

 

A problem  inside the Ecu.....interesting...!!! I understand the problem was with a welding or a electronic component because inside the ecu there aren´t wires as you can check in the attach....

 

It´s possible the previous owner wanted to deactivate the inmo manipulating ECU....

 

Be careful with aftermarket ECU and throtle body if your country is strict with mot (co gas emissions),...here, NortWest Spain, are very strict,...LOL !!!

 

Have you purchased and Emerald aftermarket ecu and 52 mm metal throttle body ....?

 

 

If you follow the previus topics.... 

 

a) has your car one or two condensors for the aacc ?

b) could you please send  photos of aacc controls in dashboard ?

 

 

Cheers !!!

 

Attached Files

•  mkc104292.jpg   154.35K   10 downloads