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#16 Cooperman

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 12:06 AM

The thing that annoys many people is the fact that in order to make cash from them, they use the excuse that there have been 'x' accidents in that location over the past 'y' years. Now what they never say is what the accident level was before that spate of accidents.

 

So if, for example, there were 3 accidents over a 2 year period on what should be a safe piece of road, they might put a camera in. There may have been no accidents there over the 2 (or even more) years before that period though. Then, after putting in the cameras there might be no accidents for the next 2 years. The claim will be that the cameras have reduced the accidents from 3 to zero over a 2-year period. What has happened in fact is that the accident rate has just returned to what it was 4 to 6 years ago. It is called 'regression to the mean'. They could have put a garden gnome beside the road instead of a camera and the accident rate would still have regressed to zero over the same period.

 

How many of you know that the Road Transport Research Laboratory, a Gov't funded professional investigation group, have established that only between 4% and 5% of all road traffic collisions (RTC's) involve (not necessarily are caused by) vehicles being driven in excess of the posted speed limit? Thus around 95% of RTC's do not have speed in excess of the posted limit as a factor in their causation. The main causes are inattention, inappropriate speed for the conditions, driving to close or carelessly and failure to judge the path and speed of other vehicles. In other words, simply poor driving. Driving will not be improved by simply 'driving by numbers', the numbers being those in black on the white circle with the red outline!

 

That is why cameras are a cash-raising scam.



#17 timmy850

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 12:29 AM

Unfortunately, you can't measure/quantify fatigue, inattention, lack of ability, drugs/alcohol, etc from moving vehicles. Speed is something easy to measure in bulk and easy to blame for accidents.



#18 THE ANORAK

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 05:37 AM

The fact is... you dont get caught if you dont break the speed limit !! Get over it people !!!

If you ever get to go on a speed awareness course, they realy love the people with the pathetic excuses.

And another revelation... if you dont want a parking ticket... dont park in the wrong place !!

#19 Ethel

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 07:46 AM

Unfortunately, you can't measure/quantify fatigue, inattention, lack of ability, drugs/alcohol, etc from moving vehicles. Speed is something easy to measure in bulk and easy to blame for accidents.

Failing to notice a speed camera and knowing what speed you can do without tripping it can be an indication of all of those and the lower your speed the less damage you'll do when you have an accident.



#20 Steve220

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 08:10 AM

The fact is... you dont get caught if you dont break the speed limit !! Get over it people !!!

If you ever get to go on a speed awareness course, they realy love the people with the pathetic excuses.

And another revelation... if you dont want a parking ticket... dont park in the wrong place !!

 

The one i went on, done by the AA, was full of incorrect statistics and the guys hosting it knew little/no mechanical knowledge of cars despite their 5 minute introduction of their backgrounds and quals. The most I got out of it was the free tea/coffee and a day off work.



#21 Cooperman

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 08:19 AM

The problem is that the limits are being unnecessarily lowered and drivers who are driving completely safely are being 'speed taxed' for exceeding the unnecessarily low limit.
That brings the law into disrepute.
Limits used to be set by professionals using the 85th-percentile rule, but now it is driven by local politicians who just want votes.

#22 Steve220

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 08:30 AM

The problem is that the limits are being unnecessarily lowered and drivers who are driving completely safely are being 'speed taxed' for exceeding the unnecessarily low limit.
That brings the law into disrepute.
Limits used to be set by professionals using the 85th-percentile rule, but now it is driven by local politicians who just want votes.

 

Agreed. I was caught doing 35 in a 30 on deceleration into a village that had no pre-warning markings. Blind corner, 30 signs appeared, slowed down, camera van on the straight. Wrote a letter to the council about putting signs on the road or a III, II, I marker, i got one back saying as there was not a speeding issue in that area, there was no need. Which counter argues everything they rabbit on about in the speed awareness course and the supposed point of speed cameras!



#23 Carlos W

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 08:51 AM

 

The fact is... you dont get caught if you dont break the speed limit !! Get over it people !!!

If you ever get to go on a speed awareness course, they realy love the people with the pathetic excuses.

And another revelation... if you dont want a parking ticket... dont park in the wrong place !!

 

The one i went on, done by the AA, was full of incorrect statistics and the guys hosting it knew little/no mechanical knowledge of cars despite their 5 minute introduction of their backgrounds and quals. The most I got out of it was the free tea/coffee and a day off work.

 

The 2 people who hosted mine said you should use 3rd gear in a 30 zone then if you're going over 30 you'll be able to hear the engine noise. I drive a Mazda 6 2.2 diesel as my daily, it's perfectly happy in 4th at 30, it's not labouring it just sails along.

 

I wasn't going to argue, but there were a few things I disagreed with



#24 Cooperman

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 08:53 AM

I live in a very old village with a narrow high Street. It is, rightly, a 30 limit. However, when a camera van is used it is placed right at the end of the village where the road has widened, there are no more buildings and thus no safety issues. This is after the vehicles have passed through the village. This is so obviously just for cash collection as it is so blatent.
I could give more examples in this area, but 'driving by numbers' and not driving by skill is what the idiot politicians think is needed and it makes money.
Speed awareness courses by which the Old Bill are, effectively, bribed to not issue a prosecution is another matter as it is bribery to make a profit.

#25 THE ANORAK

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 09:09 AM

Speeding is speeding. The limit is set, and regardless of who set it, going over that limit puts you in a position to be prosecuted, fined or whatever.
im not saying i dont speed, what im saying is, if i get caught i dont bleet on about it and make excuses.

I sorry but i really do see it as black and white, right or wrong.

#26 Steve220

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 09:16 AM

Speeding is speeding. The limit is set, and regardless of who set it, going over that limit puts you in a position to be prosecuted, fined or whatever.
im not saying i dont speed, what im saying is, if i get caught i dont bleet on about it and make excuses.
I sorry but i really do see it as black and white, right or wrong.

I don't think anyone is arguing that. It's more a discussion of entrapment rather than a rant on guilt.

Edited by Steve220, 30 May 2017 - 09:17 AM.


#27 Steve220

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 09:16 AM

The fact is... you dont get caught if you dont break the speed limit !! Get over it people !!!
If you ever get to go on a speed awareness course, they realy love the people with the pathetic excuses.
And another revelation... if you dont want a parking ticket... dont park in the wrong place !!

 
The one i went on, done by the AA, was full of incorrect statistics and the guys hosting it knew little/no mechanical knowledge of cars despite their 5 minute introduction of their backgrounds and quals. The most I got out of it was the free tea/coffee and a day off work.
The 2 people who hosted mine said you should use 3rd gear in a 30 zone then if you're going over 30 you'll be able to hear the engine noise. I drive a Mazda 6 2.2 diesel as my daily, it's perfectly happy in 4th at 30, it's not labouring it just sails along.
 
I wasn't going to argue, but there were a few things I disagreed with

My daily has 8 gears. If I was in 3rd I'd be at 4.5krpm!

#28 Cooperman

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 09:28 AM

The last time I received points on my licence was in 1989 when I was caught at 90 mph on a clear dual carriageway at midnight.

I guess I have been lucky since then.

However, I am still convinced that the cameras are for revenue collection more than road safety.

#29 THE ANORAK

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 09:55 AM

There is no entrapment. The speed limits are clearly defined. And not just by the signs, there are given rules for different types of road. Its in the highway code.

#30 racingbob

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 11:17 AM

I normally go through 30 in third gear makes it easier not to speed




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