38 replies to this topic

[nicklouse]

Does that trumpet look like an early steel one?

[tiger99]

It rather does! And now we know what grade of steel was used for the ball, so when the time comes that we can only buy trash (almost there already!), anyone with a decent lathe can make them, providing that critical dimensions such as root radii are observed.

Very interesting indeed.

[jaydee]

Get different knuckles from diffrent suppliers you'll find a difference in the machining of few thou

Just get an hi lo rod

Take a bunch of knuckles

Try all those knuckle in the strut hole

Some will be loose while others just wont fit

There should be more quality control on such item.

AFAIK minispares changed suppliers due to issues of lack of grease, incorrect cups, wrong rubber, wrong sizes found on some knuckle joints.

[Spider]

Does that trumpet look like an early steel one?

 

Nick, I've looking at it on and off since you asked the question, it could be though the steel ones I've seen had an extra sleeve on the little end of them.

[tiger99]

You are probably correct. Some HiLo type devices from one of the less satisfactory suppliers (you probably can guess which) intentionally used knuckle joints of non-standard diameter for no good reason, which can add to the confusion.

[MRA]

 

 

Locally, (and possibly in the UK?, though noted that Engineering Products also supplied some of the suspension parts too), the knuckle joints, ball joints and steering racks were made under license by TRW who also happened to be a client to me. While I was not able to obtain copies of these drawings (and it would be wrong of me to do so), I had access to them from which I have made sketches and taken appropriate notes.

 

The Ball was specified as EN8D Steel and hardened to 52 Rc. ,,,,,,,,,,

 

 

I was kindly sent this last night and I found it interesting, though, no surprises.

 

 

I don't have anymore but am reliably informed that this was from an article written by an engineering group from BMC and published in a British Engineering Journal in 1965.

 

It wasn't correct as you cannot heat treat EN8 to 52Rc it just doesn't happen as simple as that...  but anyway your article may well be from 1965 and we all know how many amendments and updates have been implemented to parts since then, so it may well have been partly right in 1965, it's not right for the later production parts, like I said I take my information from design intent drawings not articles on hearsay, feel free to make them how you want, good luck :) 

 

A major concern that you yourself and some others on here are complaining about is quality of parts yet without even realizing it you exacerbate the situation by suggesting your own modifications to materials etc, you may not know it but there are "manufacturers out there who use information from forums to produce and yes sell new parts without the research, development and testing that is required...  classic example we have all seen the cone compressor made from bits of steel tube and "all-thread" the implication of which I am sure doesn't need discussing now (hopefully)  so everyone on forums needs to think about what they say, do and write about especially when their Engineering skills are basic or self taught, maybe precede the post or topic with the simple line "this is what I do...." because otherwise very soon once the laws are passed people like yourself may well find you are in court on a manslaughter charge....  it's coming it's just a matter of time.

[Spider]

 

 

 

Locally, (and possibly in the UK?, though noted that Engineering Products also supplied some of the suspension parts too), the knuckle joints, ball joints and steering racks were made under license by TRW who also happened to be a client to me. While I was not able to obtain copies of these drawings (and it would be wrong of me to do so), I had access to them from which I have made sketches and taken appropriate notes.

 

The Ball was specified as EN8D Steel and hardened to 52 Rc. ,,,,,,,,,,

 

 

I was kindly sent this last night and I found it interesting, though, no surprises.

 

 

I don't have anymore but am reliably informed that this was from an article written by an engineering group from BMC and published in a British Engineering Journal in 1965.

 

 

It wasn't correct as you cannot heat treat EN8 to 52Rc it just doesn't happen as simple as that... 

 

 

I did say that our local TRW plant made them in EN8D. I'll add though that I did also mean to say it was only the ball part of the joint that was hardened, my bad on that detail.

 

However, these guys have no trouble with either EN8 or EN8D getting 52 Rc +

 

 

found here;-

 

http://www.induction...n Sheet RGB.pdf

 

 

MRA, I really really suggest you give it up.

[MRA]

 

 

 

 

Locally, (and possibly in the UK?, though noted that Engineering Products also supplied some of the suspension parts too), the knuckle joints, ball joints and steering racks were made under license by TRW who also happened to be a client to me. While I was not able to obtain copies of these drawings (and it would be wrong of me to do so), I had access to them from which I have made sketches and taken appropriate notes.

 

The Ball was specified as EN8D Steel and hardened to 52 Rc. ,,,,,,,,,,

 

 

I was kindly sent this last night and I found it interesting, though, no surprises.

 

 

I don't have anymore but am reliably informed that this was from an article written by an engineering group from BMC and published in a British Engineering Journal in 1965.

 

 

It wasn't correct as you cannot heat treat EN8 to 52Rc it just doesn't happen as simple as that... 

 

 

I did say that our local TRW plant made them in EN8D. I'll add though that I did also mean to say it was only the ball part of the joint that was hardened, my bad on that detail.

 

However, these guys have no trouble with either EN8 or EN8D getting 52 Rc +

 

 

found here;-

 

http://www.induction...n Sheet RGB.pdf

 

 

MRA, I really really suggest you give it up.

 

 

I really really really suggest you get your information correct !  EN8 hardened to 52RC is brittle, yes it's hard but BRITTLE but I don't expect you to understand a simple thing like that !  EN8D ?  ha ha good luck with that then as the BSI and ISO specification sheets for EN8D means that the manufacturers tolerance for chemical composition allows the supplier to send out EN8 its such a minor change, but more importantly even if you could get EN8D bang on specification hardening ANY of the EN8 grades above about 48Rc makes them susceptible to stress cracking and to aleviate this they need to be tempered back to 48Rc or lower, definitely in SAFETY CRITICAL parts .... engine parts like rockers can be hardened to Rc58 then tempered back to 52-55Rc but not safety critical parts .....  but you can as I said before use what you want

[Spider]

MRA, since you've come on to this forum - or that's actually come back on the forum - you've gone well out of your way to bait not only myself but others here that you seem to be jealous of or perceive as some kind of threat to you or what ever.

 

You've posted well over 50 'likes' on my profile, quote probably 3 times that of my posts in an attempt to draw me in to one of your many forum arguments. I don't mind a mature debate, but you're clearly incapable of that.

 

Throughout this thread, not only have you wanted to argue, but you've continually thrown childish insults at me, a sign that instead of being able to handle that you've not only been wrong on all accounts but that you're not mature enough to admit that to yourself or others, so you'd rather resort to insults in the hope that we'll all run away and feel some kind of intimidation.

 

I've kept to technical matters, except perhaps where I posted my observation that you seem to only ever want to argue. You seemed upset that I also said you contribute little. Maybe you do contribute, but I haven't read anything that is contributory.

 

We have a saying in these parts - put up or shut up. On many postings here, you've attempted to make somehow look stupid or silly, in between your insults, which for the most part, I've over looked, but none the less saw beyond and provided information to back up my postings. So far, beyond your insults, you have again contributed zero to this thread, you've made many false and outrageous claims and provided no back up, data or proof. You've also tried to twist the thread and the flowing fabric of it.

 

Googling 'MRA Minis' brings up many 'interesting & chequered results' of a somewhat eye raising past and background.

 

Personally, I think you are fake.

 

For what it's worth, through hardening will make most materials brittle, even a school kid knows that, however most materials will surface harden without making them brittle.

 

I apologies to the rest of the forum for the goings on here and I'm done with it.

Edited by Moke Spider, 13 June 2017 - 09:14 AM.