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Roadworthiness Testing For Vehicles Of Historical Interest


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#16 MatthewsDad

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 06:54 AM

Having read the response to the consultation it appears that, in summary, the government has acknowledged the strong case for continuing the MOT requirements for historic vehicles but then decided to ignore it with some pretty flaky reasoning.

For peace of mind I'll keep putting my historic through its MOT at my local classic-friendly testing station.

#17 Ethel

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 09:36 AM

I wonder if insurers will have something to say on the matter, though there won't be much room for a discount to offset the test fee for most classic Mini drivers.



#18 nicklouse

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 10:37 AM

 

If a vehicle has a power to weight ratio of more than 15% in excess of its original design

 

I love this statement.

 

so does this refer to the model or the range? the design of a disc braked 998 is the same as a 1275 version.



#19 CityEPete

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 11:53 AM


 

 

Mines exempt, but I get it MOT'd anyway. Peace of mine and forsight before the MOT you may have missed something, is always better than saying "if only", post a fatal accident. 

Up until the new legislation being put before parliament today, goes into force, all classic cars over 40 still require an MOT but get free road tax as an historic vehicle.
No they don't, I've got an mot exempt car, 1957.
 
Sorry Pete, your absolutely right. Pre 1960, cars at present, don't need an MOT. I was concentrating on the Mini.

Well they do just sneak in there :-)

#20 Mat

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 12:15 PM

 

 

If a vehicle has a power to weight ratio of more than 15% in excess of its original design

 

I love this statement.

 

so does this refer to the model or the range? the design of a disc braked 998 is the same as a 1275 version.

 

 

And how will they enforce it? Government-funded dyno tests and corner weighting sessions for all, I say!



#21 DeanP

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 04:04 PM

 

Mines exempt, but I get it MOT'd anyway. Peace of mine and forsight before the MOT you may have missed something, is always better than saying "if only", post a fatal accident. 

Up until the new legislation being put before parliament today, goes into force, all classic cars over 40 still require an MOT but get free road tax as an historic vehicle. The government seem to want to discriminate between "genuine" historic vehicles that have changed very little since new, and vehicles like the Mini that often sees a huge amount of changes to its specification over time. Is this to be classed as a "non historic" vehicle and given a Q plate?

 

 

 

My other classic is a '53 Morris Minor, apologies I should have mentioned that. It also falls into the free road tax bracket which is a blessing when the reminder comes through :). 

 

I think for the MOT and Q plate scenario the DVLA are going to be reliant on the MOT station being the whistle blowers.

 

My moggy had a performance upgrade in the 70's from an 803cc to a 948cc :blink:  although the log book still says 803. When I asked my MOT station if this was a problem they said "You are our customer, it's safe and how many classics still have their original running gear? We'd be out of business of we reported every single car we thought had changes away from the log book." 

 

So read that how you want.... be friendly to your classic friendly garage....


Edited by DeanP, 15 September 2017 - 04:07 PM.


#22 sonikk4

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 04:26 PM

If in doubt get the car MOT'd. I will carry on getting my Clubby done no matter what. ( i suspect fitting a 1293 with a 7 Port head and injection will somewhat up the power to weight ratio over Paddys old 998 although i'm not sure??? ;D  ;D )

 

I can see this opening a large can of worms and the biggy already mentioned is Insurance companies. Will they be willing to insure our little pride and joys without a MOT. I suspect if they do the premiums will take a major hike.



#23 DeanP

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 04:35 PM

 

I can see this opening a large can of worms and the biggy already mentioned is Insurance companies. Will they be willing to insure our little pride and joys without a MOT. I suspect if they do the premiums will take a major hike.

 

I haven't read of any complaints in the Moggy community of increased premiums or insurance refusal. I guess if you are in an accident and an unsafe car was deemed to be the cause the repercussions could be endless. The directive does state even with an exempt MOT, the registered owner has a responsibility to ensure the car is always road worthy.


Edited by DeanP, 15 September 2017 - 04:37 PM.


#24 Stu1961

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 04:54 PM

 

 

If a vehicle has a power to weight ratio of more than 15% in excess of its original design

 

I love this statement.

 

so does this refer to the model or the range? the design of a disc braked 998 is the same as a 1275 version.

 

They don't make it very clear do they, but from the way it is worded would seem to be for the design of vehicle (Classic Mini) as opposed to a specific model within the range (1000HL) So if that is the case and you have a 998 the max bhp would be around 58 based on a standard engine putting out 39bhp and likewise 85bhp for a 1275 based on a standard engine putting out 57bhp. If they mean as a specific car came out the factory that will change things quite a bit and will effect especially those transplanting a 1275 into a car which originally came out the factory with a 998. Hope my calculations are right, apologies if they are wrong, hope that all makes sense. 

 

Regarding the MOT can't imagine anyone responsible not having it done anyway even if the car is exempt, though I feel our insurance company's will make that decision for us to some extent.



#25 nicklouse

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 05:04 PM

 


 

Regarding the MOT can't imagine anyone responsible not having it done anyway even if the car is exempt, though I feel our insurance company's will make that decision for us to some extent.

 

 but what actually is the MOT. only a piece of paper saying that the car has passed a set of checks. it does not mean that it is in a road worthy condition. you will still be responsible for making sure your car is fit for the road.



#26 sonikk4

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 05:12 PM

If in doubt get the car MOT'd. I will carry on getting my Clubby done no matter what. ( i suspect fitting a 1293 with a 7 Port head and injection will somewhat up the power to weight ratio over Paddys old 998 although i'm not sure??? ;D  ;D )

 

I can see this opening a large can of worms and the biggy already mentioned is Insurance companies. Will they be willing to insure our little pride and joys without a MOT. I suspect if they do the premiums will take a major hike.

 

As i said WILL they be willing to insure?? hopefully there will be no issues like that but we shall see. Its a good sign that they have been doing this with Moggies but cynical me suspects they will try and do something.



#27 Stu1961

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 05:24 PM

 

 


 

Regarding the MOT can't imagine anyone responsible not having it done anyway even if the car is exempt, though I feel our insurance company's will make that decision for us to some extent.

 

 but what actually is the MOT. only a piece of paper saying that the car has passed a set of checks. it does not mean that it is in a road worthy condition. you will still be responsible for making sure your car is fit for the road.

 

See your point Nick, though I'm not a qualified mechanic so it makes sense to me perhaps I should have worded it differently, I feel having it done will give more peace of mind to the individual (Me) Personally my car when built will be kept and maintained to the best of my ability but i would be wholly grateful to any MOT tester who picked up something I had missed.        



#28 Homersimpson

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 06:00 PM

I have always thought that MOT exemption for pre 1960 cars was very misguided and applied by people with very little understanding of the cars that they were covering.

 

As an example I had a friend who was an MOT tester (now retired) and he used to test a Model T ford, he couldn't test the brakes on his rolling road (due to wooden wheels) and used a tapley meter instead.  The car had so little that could be tested it didn't make sense to have to do it, these are the sort of vehicles that should be MOT exempt where very little can actually be tested and issues such as corrosion are unlikely.

 

On the other hand I have a 1959 MK2 Jag 3.8, it has four wheel disc brakes, 220HP (according to Jag so probably in truth a fair bit less), weighs around 1.5tons and can do well over 100MPH.  This doesn't have to be tested anymore, its just as capable of being driven in traffic as a modern car (if you can afford the fuel) so where is the sense in that.

 

To me they should say really old cars with wooden wheels, exposed chassis's made of very thick steel, gas headlights etc. should be MOT exempt but certainly most post war cars should be tested.  There really isn't any sensible argument to not do so, especially as we were all doing this anyway and we have a network of approved testing stations that could carry this out.

 

If they wanted to do something to reduce the cost and time taken they could have offered a reduced price and extent MOT for pre 1960's cars where they check the basics like suspension, steering, corrosion, lights, horn etc. which make take 2/3rds of the time and cost 2/3rds of the price.  At least we would then have someone looking at all these old cars and making sure that they were at least in a reasonably safe state.

 

Just my two pence.



#29 carbon

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 07:08 PM

 

 

 

If a vehicle has a power to weight ratio of more than 15% in excess of its original design

 

I love this statement.

 

so does this refer to the model or the range? the design of a disc braked 998 is the same as a 1275 version.

 

They don't make it very clear do they, but from the way it is worded would seem to be for the design of vehicle (Classic Mini) as opposed to a specific model within the range (1000HL) So if that is the case and you have a 998 the max bhp would be around 58 based on a standard engine putting out 39bhp and likewise 85bhp for a 1275 based on a standard engine putting out 57bhp. If they mean as a specific car came out the factory that will change things quite a bit and will effect especially those transplanting a 1275 into a car which originally came out the factory with a 998. Hope my calculations are right, apologies if they are wrong, hope that all makes sense. 

 

Regarding the MOT can't imagine anyone responsible not having it done anyway even if the car is exempt, though I feel our insurance company's will make that decision for us to some extent.

 

If the new regulations allow MOT exempt cars to power to weight ratio of no more than 15% in excess of its original design, by specific models then:

- A Mini 1000 with original 39bhp would be allowed 39+6 = up to 45bhp

- A Mini 1275 model with original 57bhp would be allowed 57+9 = up to 66bhp



#30 mm man

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 09:12 PM

It's been mentioned several times on the classic scooter forums where insurance companies are taking premiums quite happily then when a claim has gone in for classic scooters that is mot exempt they are refusing to pay out because it hasn't got an mot. But the law states it doesn't need one ????




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