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Mpi Sport Pack V's Basic Mpi Cooper (12 Inch Wheels)


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#1 HUBBA.HUBBA

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 06:56 PM

Interested in people's opinion if they have owned or driven both. Looking for the pro's and con's. I am not normally a fan of the sport pack's, looking a bit bulbous. Wondered how chuckable they are and what they are like to live with. Cheers

#2 Ben_O

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 07:10 PM

In my experience, the sportspack ones tend to tramline and bumpsteer and can cause premature wear of wheel bearings. 

 

10 or 12" cars handle better in my opinion



#3 Lt-SilverDragon

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 07:14 PM

My current mini has 13x7 wheels and coil spring suspension so it's pretty much the worst combination you can have on a mini but mine drives fine, my first mini was a clubman estate with 12x5 wheels and that thing just gripped the road. All you had to do was point it in the direction you wanted to go and it went there. So far I'm just building up my confidence in my new mini, it's horrible in the wet well not so much the wet but puddles make the back end twitch (I'm assuming because the back is lighter it aquaplanes but I couldn't say for deffo) but it's not bad to drive overall. It's very heavy when at a stand still to turn the wheel but once it's rolling it's ok and around town I find it very easy to drive, it's been a long time since I drove another mini but the wheels find every groove in the road and grip onto it so the steering wheel can get jerked out your hand but I'm not sure if I'm used to power steering now or if it's to do with the bigger wheels. Personally I like the styling of the bigger wheels and really enjoy driving it but I bought the wheels as the mini already had sportspack arches on when I got it. If not I would have probably went for 12x6 or 10x6 wheels and a nice set of arches to suit.

 

Cons I've found is that you've got less steering travel because of the bigger wheels so getting in and out of tight spaces and doing a U turn are harder and they also stick out more so you have to be mindful of that so you don't hit the curb.



#4 HUBBA.HUBBA

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 07:26 PM

My current mini has 13x7 wheels and coil spring suspension so it's pretty much the worst combination you can have on a mini but mine drives fine, my first mini was a clubman estate with 12x5 wheels and that thing just gripped the road. All you had to do was point it in the direction you wanted to go and it went there. So far I'm just building up my confidence in my new mini, it's horrible in the wet well not so much the wet but puddles make the back end twitch (I'm assuming because the back is lighter it aquaplanes but I couldn't say for deffo) but it's not bad to drive overall. It's very heavy when at a stand still to turn the wheel but once it's rolling it's ok and around town I find it very easy to drive, it's been a long time since I drove another mini but the wheels find every groove in the road and grip onto it so the steering wheel can get jerked out your hand but I'm not sure if I'm used to power steering now or if it's to do with the bigger wheels. Personally I like the styling of the bigger wheels and really enjoy driving it but I bought the wheels as the mini already had sportspack arches on when I got it. If not I would have probably went for 12x6 or 10x6 wheels and a nice set of arches to suit.
 
Cons I've found is that you've got less steering travel because of the bigger wheels so getting in and out of tight spaces and doing a U turn are harder and they also stick out more so you have to be mindful of that so you don't hit the curb.

Is yours an mpi?

#5 Lt-SilverDragon

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 07:33 PM

Oops sorry no mine is a British open classic that was converted to the bigger rims and sportpack arches. Totally didn't even think about you mentioning the mpi before I waded in with my opinion lol.

Edited by Lt-SilverDragon, 09 October 2017 - 07:35 PM.


#6 mab01uk

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 07:36 PM

Wheels & tyres - Bigger wheel fitment consideration

By Keith Calver (Minispares Blog)

"The 13-inch wheel/tyre combination brings out the worst in everything Mini suspension and brakes orientated - but to many the aesthetics far out-weigh all other considerations. And there are many considerations. Those who believe they are fitting this combination for increased grip and handling capability on a road car need to think again. Most of the 13-inch tyres are manufactured for heavier cars. This means a harder tyre compound is used. A Mini simply doesn't get the tyre up to its proper operating temperature, so the increase in grip originally hoped for doesn't materialize or isn't maximised. Wayward handling (unless suitable suspension set-up has been applied), heavy wayward steering, and exaggerated bump-steer are further consequences. These are caused by the offsets employed, necessary to get suspension clearance. 13-inchers are generally wider than standard rims, so the wheels are made with the greater portion of the extra width applied to the outside of the wheel, effectively pushing the wheel further out away from the car. This causes a greater leverage to be applied to the already poor bump-steer geometry of the Mini. The wider tyre needs different geometry settings to ensure the full footprint is road-surface bound as the lower, stiffer side-wall does not distort as easily as the 10-inch tyre types. Excessive camber - positive or negative - will cause the tyre to loose contact with the road surface when cornering or with extreme steering in-puts. This then causes the tyre to follow any deviations in road surface. The offset dimensions employed can also mean wheel spacer shims are required in certain combinations to gain clearance, and even the steering rack may need replacing with the one used on the Sportpack cars - and these are definitely not cheap, costing in excess of £100. These have built in lock-stops to reduce the turning circle to prevent the tyre scrubbing the inside of the rear of the inner front arch. Again, the types and styles are legion, so doing a comprehensive and accurate whose needs what is impossible in a few pages. The increased footprint increases drag - responsible for reduced top speed, reduced acceleration, increased fuel consumption (all neatly illustrated by the difference in performance figures between the Sportpack cars and the 12-inch shod variants, the 13-inchers suffering 6mph slower top speed and 0.6 seconds slower 0-60 with less mpg). This larger footprint-induced grip/drag increase will help with braking, but only if the brakes are equal to the task. The wheel diameter also gives a greater ('longer') leverage working against the brakes. The combined larger footprint and greater leverage means fitting 13-inchers to a drum-braked Mini is an absolute no-no. They simply over-come the applied friction capability of the shoes. Disc brakes are a must. Even the 7.5-inch S type discs are a little marginal in my opinion/experience unless steps are taken to maximise their performance envelope. The 13-inch combination is a good deal heavier in most instances than the standard set-up so up-rated dampers are an absolute must. Having considered, dismissed or navigated round the aforementioned problems and are still serious about fitting 13-inchers, one thing is certain - body surgery will be necessary."

http://www.calverst....-consideration/


Edited by mab01uk, 09 October 2017 - 07:36 PM.


#7 old original

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 08:08 PM

Wheels & tyres - Bigger wheel fitment consideration
By Keith Calver (Minispares Blog)
"The 13-inch wheel/tyre combination brings out the worst in everything Mini suspension and brakes orientated - but to many the aesthetics far out-weigh all other considerations. And there are many considerations. Those who believe they are fitting this combination for increased grip and handling capability on a road car need to think again. Most of the 13-inch tyres are manufactured for heavier cars. This means a harder tyre compound is used. A Mini simply doesn't get the tyre up to its proper operating temperature, so the increase in grip originally hoped for doesn't materialize or isn't maximised. Wayward handling (unless suitable suspension set-up has been applied), heavy wayward steering, and exaggerated bump-steer are further consequences. These are caused by the offsets employed, necessary to get suspension clearance. 13-inchers are generally wider than standard rims, so the wheels are made with the greater portion of the extra width applied to the outside of the wheel, effectively pushing the wheel further out away from the car. This causes a greater leverage to be applied to the already poor bump-steer geometry of the Mini. The wider tyre needs different geometry settings to ensure the full footprint is road-surface bound as the lower, stiffer side-wall does not distort as easily as the 10-inch tyre types. Excessive camber - positive or negative - will cause the tyre to loose contact with the road surface when cornering or with extreme steering in-puts. This then causes the tyre to follow any deviations in road surface. The offset dimensions employed can also mean wheel spacer shims are required in certain combinations to gain clearance, and even the steering rack may need replacing with the one used on the Sportpack cars - and these are definitely not cheap, costing in excess of £100. These have built in lock-stops to reduce the turning circle to prevent the tyre scrubbing the inside of the rear of the inner front arch. Again, the types and styles are legion, so doing a comprehensive and accurate whose needs what is impossible in a few pages. The increased footprint increases drag - responsible for reduced top speed, reduced acceleration, increased fuel consumption (all neatly illustrated by the difference in performance figures between the Sportpack cars and the 12-inch shod variants, the 13-inchers suffering 6mph slower top speed and 0.6 seconds slower 0-60 with less mpg). This larger footprint-induced grip/drag increase will help with braking, but only if the brakes are equal to the task. The wheel diameter also gives a greater ('longer') leverage working against the brakes. The combined larger footprint and greater leverage means fitting 13-inchers to a drum-braked Mini is an absolute no-no. They simply over-come the applied friction capability of the shoes. Disc brakes are a must. Even the 7.5-inch S type discs are a little marginal in my opinion/experience unless steps are taken to maximise their performance envelope. The 13-inch combination is a good deal heavier in most instances than the standard set-up so up-rated dampers are an absolute must. Having considered, dismissed or navigated round the aforementioned problems and are still serious about fitting 13-inchers, one thing is certain - body surgery will be necessary."
http://www.calverst....-consideration/


Sorry but that's a bit doom & gloom. ERA sorted it years ago... yes the arches are cut larger but I run a standard rack and it does move a bit!

#8 HUBBA.HUBBA

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 11:43 AM

Any other drivers?

#9 Cooperman

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 11:59 AM

How can 175 section width tyre be better than a 145 or 165 section on a classic Mini? A 175 is about right for a car weighing between around 900kg and 1300kg.

That is but one reason for not having 13" wheels. The other main reason is the small sidewall depth fails to do the suspension work it needs to do. This can be partly overcome by raising the ride height and softening the damper rate, but really that is just chasing the problem which need never have been introduced in the first place.

#10 Zach P-D

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 12:29 PM

I run 13x7 and it feels pretty much the same as my old on with 12x5 wheels.
only difference is you will get sucked into bumps and grooves in the road a lot more.



#11 HUBBA.HUBBA

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 03:37 PM

How can 175 section width tyre be better than a 145 or 165 section on a classic Mini? A 175 is about right for a car weighing between around 900kg and 1300kg.
That is but one reason for not having 13" wheels. The other main reason is the small sidewall depth fails to do the suspension work it needs to do. This can be partly overcome by raising the ride height and softening the damper rate, but really that is just chasing the problem which need never have been introduced in the first place.

why on earth did rover bother to do the sport pack? To appeal to a certain type?

#12 CityEPete

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 04:24 PM

I like the sports pack and I'd buy one but I'd be happy to accept that it would drive worse than my Mayfair on 12"s.

#13 Cooperman

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 05:51 PM

 

How can 175 section width tyre be better than a 145 or 165 section on a classic Mini? A 175 is about right for a car weighing between around 900kg and 1300kg.
That is but one reason for not having 13" wheels. The other main reason is the small sidewall depth fails to do the suspension work it needs to do. This can be partly overcome by raising the ride height and softening the damper rate, but really that is just chasing the problem which need never have been introduced in the first place.

why on earth did rover bother to do the sport pack? To appeal to a certain type?

 

It was a victory for perceived style over engineering sense. Probably driven by the Marketing Department  ;D . At that time Rover Group got very little right.



#14 mab01uk

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 07:02 PM

 

 

How can 175 section width tyre be better than a 145 or 165 section on a classic Mini? A 175 is about right for a car weighing between around 900kg and 1300kg.
That is but one reason for not having 13" wheels. The other main reason is the small sidewall depth fails to do the suspension work it needs to do. This can be partly overcome by raising the ride height and softening the damper rate, but really that is just chasing the problem which need never have been introduced in the first place.

why on earth did rover bother to do the sport pack? To appeal to a certain type?

 

It was a victory for perceived style over engineering sense. Probably driven by the Marketing Department  ;D . At that time Rover Group got very little right.

 

 

It was certainly style or fashion over engineering in the same way that many modern cars now have stupidly wide wheels/tyres purely for the 'looks'.

For example does anyone really think a BMW X5 needs an 'M sport' wheel option of 315/35 x 20 wide tyres on the rear and 275 section width on the front just to take the kids to school...... :lol:

No hope of carrying a spare wheel of that size and you would have to be fit and strong to lift it out the boot anyway!

 

I think BMW were behind the classic Mini 'Sportpack' option as the MPi Mini was funded by BMW to take the Mini upmarket in style and price while filling the 4 year gap between Rovers original planned end of Mini production in 1996 and the start of the R50 New MINI production in 2001. Rover engineers were developing the R50 MINI at Gaydon and Longbridge on 15" wheels and 175 section tyres but were instructed by BMW to add 17" wheels and 205/45 run flat tyres as a 'sport' option late in the development.......many Rover engineers on the MINI project felt the big wheels spoilt the ride, steering and handling of the R50 & R53 S when fitted but they did prove popular with buyers for the looks. I even have the 17" S Spoke alloys (with non-runflats) on my R50 MINI but have to admit it drives much nicer and more like a classic Mini on its original 15" wheels!


Edited by mab01uk, 10 October 2017 - 07:07 PM.


#15 some1158

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 06:57 AM

why on earth did rover bother to do the sport pack? To appeal to a certain type?

 

 

 

Sportspack-like body kits had apparently been popular in Germany for a while (think LAMM cabrio) and so BMW pushed for it.






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