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1275Gt Historic Rally Car Project


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#31 rally1380

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 04:34 PM

Twin 1 1/4 SU's may not be a very good choice to be honest. You will probably see less power than your HIF is giving.  The smaller twin SU's tend to be on the smaller bore A series engines. If you can, look for twin 1 1/2's or even a single 1 3/4" HS6 (older version of the 1 3/4" HIF).

 

Trips - a crew competed on the 2015 or 2016 VoCC in a green 1275GT and finished well inside the top 10 and won their class with no trip. They just relied on stop watches and the cars inbuilt trip in the speedo.  I'm not saying this way is ideal, but what I'm saying is for your first event, just going the correct way at roughly the right speed will see you get a half decent result and will take the pressure off the nav a wee bit. These events are hard on the nav, and even though the ToC is the best one to do as complete beginners to this sort of event, it is still a hell of a lot to take in.  So what I'm saying is concentrate on the plotting side of things and get the team (you and GF) working well in the car and then throw in the average speed tables and trips etc.



#32 Cooperman

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 11:43 PM

The 'modern' historic road rallies are a fairly new thing and nothing like the road rallies we used to do when the Mini was a current and new model.

Now it is all about total regularity and short autotests tests.

 

As some will know I always marshal on the Tour of Cheshire and the difference between the top crews who are on time at the secret regularity controls to within a few seconds early or late and the 'other crews' who are lucky if they even visit all of the controls is huge. A top crew will have a system for the navigation and time-keeping. The driving is the easy bit, but the navigator will need to stay on the correct route with absolutely no errors whilst checking the time against the distance every 1/2 a mile or so against the speed tables (typically the Don Barrow ones). Also, the average speed required will change during a given section from, say, 29.2 mph for the first 5.7 miles to 28.6 mph for the remainder of the section. So at 5.7 miles you must arrive accurate to the second and zero the trip and re-start the stopwatch at exactly that distance. When competing with my son navigating we always aim to run 5 seconds early, as you lose that slowing for a secret check. If the driver sees that he has a main road coming up where he must stop & give way, it is usual to accelerate to be around 10 to 12 seconds early as you stop, then after you have pulled away again you will be within a few seconds of the correct time/distance. 

 

For you first event just try to go the right way and don't worry about a few seconds of timing error. Just check the time/distance about every mile or so and if you are early leave it to the driver to 'lose' that earliness, or speed up a bit if late.

 

Now on the tests the first thing is to be neat, go the right way around the cones/features, stop at any 'stop' lines accurately and don't hit any cones. The power of the car is not too important, but it must be reliable. Practice stopping accurately on different surfaces, as the penalty for overshooting a stop astride line is several seconds each time. The navigator and driver must have a pre-determined way of describing the way to go on the tests. For example, we use the same terminology for all tests which never varies. So I always know what I have to go and where in time to set the car up accurately.

 

Anyway, it's great fun but the navigator must take anti-sickness tablets at least 1/2 an hour before the start. I can't over-stress this. And go out and practice, practice and practice together to develop your way of doing it. The navigator must use a system of giving route instructions and this must always be "distance, feature and any instruction" so, for example, "0.7 miles cross roads turn right, 0.25 miles junction on left turn left, 0.3 miles fork keep 45 degrees right, 0.4 miles road off left ignore it and go straight on". 

 

I hope this all helps and I'll see you on the ToC. at the 'Bickerton Poacher'.



#33 28hodge

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 09:53 AM

Twin 1 1/4 SU's may not be a very good choice to be honest. You will probably see less power than your HIF is giving.  The smaller twin SU's tend to be on the smaller bore A series engines. If you can, look for twin 1 1/2's or even a single 1 3/4" HS6 (older version of the 1 3/4" HIF).
 
Trips - a crew competed on the 2015 or 2016 VoCC in a green 1275GT and finished well inside the top 10 and won their class with no trip. They just relied on stop watches and the cars inbuilt trip in the speedo.  I'm not saying this way is ideal, but what I'm saying is for your first event, just going the correct way at roughly the right speed will see you get a half decent result and will take the pressure off the nav a wee bit. These events are hard on the nav, and even though the ToC is the best one to do as complete beginners to this sort of event, it is still a hell of a lot to take in.  So what I'm saying is concentrate on the plotting side of things and get the team (you and GF) working well in the car and then throw in the average speed tables and trips etc.


I'm ok with getting less power to be honest dave, as long as the car will carburate smoothly and cleanly on them then that's ok, however if you think that this may also be an issue then I will go looking for a single hs6, budget will not run to a pair of 1 1/2 su's at the minute.

You are right we won't really know what we are doing with the trip and the avg speed changes etc but I think I'd like to have one in the car simply so that we get used to using it and get into the routine of doing the reset and restarting stop watches, if we can run within a couple minutes of ideal on each reg to start with ill take that, but I think that's a big enough ask.

#34 28hodge

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 11:07 AM

The 'modern' historic road rallies are a fairly new thing and nothing like the road rallies we used to do when the Mini was a current and new model.
Now it is all about total regularity and short autotests tests.
 
As some will know I always marshal on the Tour of Cheshire and the difference between the top crews who are on time at the secret regularity controls to within a few seconds early or late and the 'other crews' who are lucky if they even visit all of the controls is huge. A top crew will have a system for the navigation and time-keeping. The driving is the easy bit, but the navigator will need to stay on the correct route with absolutely no errors whilst checking the time against the distance every 1/2 a mile or so against the speed tables (typically the Don Barrow ones). Also, the average speed required will change during a given section from, say, 29.2 mph for the first 5.7 miles to 28.6 mph for the remainder of the section. So at 5.7 miles you must arrive accurate to the second and zero the trip and re-start the stopwatch at exactly that distance. When competing with my son navigating we always aim to run 5 seconds early, as you lose that slowing for a secret check. If the driver sees that he has a main road coming up where he must stop & give way, it is usual to accelerate to be around 10 to 12 seconds early as you stop, then after you have pulled away again you will be within a few seconds of the correct time/distance. 
 
For you first event just try to go the right way and don't worry about a few seconds of timing error. Just check the time/distance about every mile or so and if you are early leave it to the driver to 'lose' that earliness, or speed up a bit if late.
 
Now on the tests the first thing is to be neat, go the right way around the cones/features, stop at any 'stop' lines accurately and don't hit any cones. The power of the car is not too important, but it must be reliable. Practice stopping accurately on different surfaces, as the penalty for overshooting a stop astride line is several seconds each time. The navigator and driver must have a pre-determined way of describing the way to go on the tests. For example, we use the same terminology for all tests which never varies. So I always know what I have to go and where in time to set the car up accurately.
 
Anyway, it's great fun but the navigator must take anti-sickness tablets at least 1/2 an hour before the start. I can't over-stress this. And go out and practice, practice and practice together to develop your way of doing it. The navigator must use a system of giving route instructions and this must always be "distance, feature and any instruction" so, for example, "0.7 miles cross roads turn right, 0.25 miles junction on left turn left, 0.3 miles fork keep 45 degrees right, 0.4 miles road off left ignore it and go straight on". 
 
I hope this all helps and I'll see you on the ToC. at the 'Bickerton Poacher'.


Cheers cooperman very helpful.

The ToC website has previous years reg instructions and the correct routes. I have had a go at plotting these and have them plotted about 90% right. Odd instances where I had gone a slight different route but essentially still got to the correct end, though I know this means we might miss an inter. Honestly if we can avoid getting towards being otl meaning we need to cut and run and miss a reg then I'll be happy.

Communication in the car will be interesting haha honestly we just want to go out and have some fun, I really don't need another serious hobby, racing bikes has that covered and the gf events horses, so fun is the main aim, and it also ensures the car is used and not sat in a garage. That said I can't wait to get it mot'd up and running so that I can start using it.

#35 28hodge

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 03:01 PM

So, I am nearly back up and about, I am back at work but can only do so much physical stuff, so kneeling next to a mini on axle stands with my head in the arch isnt/wasnt a great way to spend yesterday, but thanks to a days holiday that what I did.
 
So I wanted to get the cones swapped, main problem the compressor wont thread into the current cones as the threads are heavily corroded, so I took the shock off the front tie bar and the bump stop and then wound the hi-lo all the way down, and it just didnt quite clear so I had to take a pair of snips to the leading edge of the cup and trim it away to allow for enough room so that the knuckle could clear, not a major hassle, and I was replacing the cups anyway. 
 
Then I had fun and games, the cone was stuck, but once covered in plus gas an using a drift and hammer it dropped out of the subframe, now I have read that you can coax the cone out past the upper arm.
 
BullSh17 you can. I spent about 5 mins looking at it and then decided even if you could (I maintain you cant) youd never get a new cone that hasnt been squashed a bit back in without taking the top arm off. I undid the rear bolt off the pin, then did the bolt nearest the wheel from the thrust plate but could get the the rear bolt, as much as I didnt want to I had to resort to bending the inner wing up and out the way a little. That done I the pin was easy to slide 2/3rdes the way out, but then it was getting stuck on something at the front end of the pin. I was hoping I could swivel out the arm enough to allow me to remove the arm from the pin with the top ball joint intact. As I had left the ball joint splitter at my dads. I gave it a try for a bit but wasnt having much luck so slid the pin back in and will take the top ball joint off this weekend and complete the passenger side with a bit of luck.
 
No the shed where the car is, is about 50yards down the lane from the house, it has no power to it and no option to put elec into it. So my plan is to use my 5kva genny to power it. Ill put a RCD into it then run 2 ring mains one for lights and one for sockets, Ill put 3 double sockets into it although Ill prob only ever use one at a time but want to be able to move around the car an plug in easily. Lights I am just going to use 4 or 6 angled pendant bayonet fittings with 10w led bulbs in them.
 
Now the genny I need to make a little lean to with sloped sides to control the noise a little, and I think I will get a set of wheels so I dont have to pick the thing up and move it as its heavy. I am hoping that I can run my new mig welder from it. I had a SIP Migmate130 but its not the best and regularly gets a beating on the mig welding forum. So I decided to treat myself to this - https://www.weldequi...eld-xte171c.htm
 
The spec says it needs a 6.45kva input to run, but having spoke to the guy from weldequipe he said that on the lower settings I will need then the welder will be fine from my 5kva. To be honest if I can do everything other than weld in the shed than thats fine as I can soon drive it the 50yrds across to my house and garage to do the welding.
 
Now one thing I hadnt thought about when I bought this was that it becomes MOT Exempt as of May18, now I want to be using it before May, and even if I didnt Id not be using it till its been MOTd/checked even if it is exempt, but has anyone heard anything regarding insurance companies etc and their take on this?

Edited by 28hodge, 16 November 2017 - 08:46 PM.


#36 MIJ

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 03:29 PM

I have read that the Tour of Cheshire will be holding a training evening on the Friday night before the rally on Saturday with is good

#37 Cooperman

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 08:26 PM

There are always experienced navigators around to give advice the night before as well as any formal instruction.
Come and find me if you need pointing in the right direction.
The Bickerton Poacher is a great start/finish venue and the food is super.

#38 MIJ

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 09:43 PM

The food is great! Been going for years. Hopefully putting an entry in and giving it a go




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