Jump to content


Photo

1275Gt Historic Rally Car Project


  • Please log in to reply
151 replies to this topic

#91 28hodge

28hodge

    Mini Mad

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 223 posts
  • Location: North

Posted 20 January 2018 - 09:46 PM

https://www.minimani...ng_Lucas_Points

Ok so I have read the above and then re read it in the garage with the car in front of me. Towards the bottom of the article there is a troubleshooting flow chart, point two tells you to connect a plug up and then short the points with the ignition on, if you get a spark it's the points,leads,condenser.

I get a spark when I short the points, I have reset the gap to 0.15 but it's still not starting. So thinking I'll get new points leads condenser and plugs and see what fixes it by adding them one at a time.

One question is can I run the following ignition and be hrcr compliant?

https://rover.ebay.c...tm/170610896647

It's a metro engine in my clubman so it's a 59d dizzy, is that right?

#92 GraemeC

GraemeC

    Crazy About Mini's

  • TMF+ Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,302 posts
  • Location: Carnforth

Posted 20 January 2018 - 10:41 PM

i prefer to work backwards:
Is there a spark at the plug? Take them out, leave them connected to their HT lead and earth them to a head stud. Crank over.
If no spark remove dizzy cap and turn engine over - is there a spark at the points?
If no spark then check voltage to coil +ve, continuity coil to points and that the wires in the dizzy aren't shorting to earth.
If that all checks out start to systematically swap out points, condenser and then coil for known good ones.

I find that it is rare (but not impossible) for any component to completely fail, usually degrade giving a misfire.

I have most ignition parts on the shelf (either new or known good used) if you need anything tomorrow.

#93 28hodge

28hodge

    Mini Mad

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 223 posts
  • Location: North

Posted 20 January 2018 - 10:49 PM

Ok, no spark at plugs when out and grounded.
Didn't have a helper tonight, so can't check the points are sparking but the points gap was small, reset to 0.15 but still no spark at plug.

Got 13.something, at the coil +ve.

The plug will spark if I take the Ht from the coil to a plug turn the ignition on and with the points open short the points I get a good spark at the connected plug.

So the fault is in the points or after this point in the ignition circuit, I'm guessing condenser as the car was running well whilst cold but got progressively worse and started to splutter and miss the warmer it got. I have my other mini to rob from but if I am desperate tomorrow I'll drop you a pm, but I'll do my best to leave you in peace.

#94 28hodge

28hodge

    Mini Mad

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 223 posts
  • Location: North

Posted 21 January 2018 - 01:02 PM

All sorted, I managed to find a full ignition service kit with a mate so had fresh points condenser rotar arm and dizzy cap to try.

I kinda suspected the condenser so swapped that first no different, so then changed the dizzy cap, still no change, changed the rotar arm, and away she went.

I changed and re set the points as I was at it and I had them, but it looks like the rotar arm was the culprit but it's had a full ignition service so we should be ok for a few thousand miles with a bit of luck.

I'll get a service kit on order to have on the self/in the boot I think.

The wiring though needs completely replacing as its such a mess of bodges. Luckily I have a mate who used to wire/prep legend race cars and understands it all better than I do. At the same time I can alter the wiring for the inertia starter set up.

Last night I also removed the carb and re set the float height had a bit of a clean though it was pretty good and spotless in there in fairness. Seems to be running a bit smoother now, but I need to take it out and run it for a good 30-45mins and make sure nothing is going to breakdown once it's all gotten warm.

Glad it's back up and running though

#95 28hodge

28hodge

    Mini Mad

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 223 posts
  • Location: North

Posted 27 January 2018 - 02:35 PM

Sooooo, I think we are there or there abouts now.

I've set all the tappets some were getting in for 20thou so put them all back to 15thou as per what the forum suggested. That done I went to time it, I've only got a tdc mark in the case and a punch on the pulley. At tick over these were bang on each other, so firing at tdc?!!?

I have a timing light with a advance dial on it but decided it loosen the dizzy and time it by ear, now this is were it gets a little odd. I could twist the dizzy quite a long way clockwise and the revs kept rising, eventually they began to die off so I pulled it back anti clockwise re set the idle and then timed it to see how much advance we were running............

Erm

It's a lot

Like over 25deg!!

I took it out very carefully to see if we had massive detonation, which it didn't I think it had a tiny hint of it so retarded it a touch more. It seems spot on and drives like a different car. No more backfiring through the carbs and it pulls so much better the connection with the throttle is really nice.

I checked that the tdc mark and punch mark were actually tdc on cly1 and they are, so I'm not sure what to do from here, leave it or set the advance to 30 at 4000rpm and see what that's like?

I expected it to not start when cold this morning running that much advance but it pretty much fired straight up.

Aside from that I have just spent a fortune on eBay buying loads of bits like tow ropes, flywheel puller and a bigger breaker bar, external fuse boxes, stop watches clip boards 12v cigarette socket and a hs6 carb to replace the hif44, as it's the easiest and most straight forward solution. The twin hs4's can wait!

#96 28hodge

28hodge

    Mini Mad

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 223 posts
  • Location: North

Posted 28 January 2018 - 12:59 PM

Took it out last night, was planning on filling the tank full and then driving around to see what mpg it's managing as I could do with knowing that for next month, however, it ran like an utter turd, it was fine at tickover and with small throttle inputs but ask for any power and it was acting as if it had massive fuel starvation or no spark.

I went and got 3 cans of fuel and dropped that in but it had little effect I retarded the ignition to 12deg and it was a little better but not right so put it back to where it was when I got it, it ran no better and the backfiring was back big time, a bit stumped I reset the points and then reset the timing to 10deg and went out, it ran ok not great but ok, then I realised I'd also left the vac advance blocked off, it was getting late so I decided to park it and have a look this morning.

This morning I reset the ignition to 8deg reconnected everything and went out it ran a little odd but then started to come good, however there was a tiny hint of it still backfiring. I tweaked the ignition to 12deg and went out again and it's running spot on.

I think I maybe ran it a bit low on fuel as I had thought the fuel gauge had stopped working as it wasn't showing anything, however wen I dumped 18ltrs into it, suddenly it showed 3/4full, that said I do think the 25deg of ignition wasn't helping, it is odd though as I can turn the dizzy to 25deg and the revs keep increasing and there is no pinging, but I'm not keen on running it with that much advance!

I am going to attempt to go out this afternoon and brim the tank and then drive around and see how many miles i can get outta a tank, but family life may get in the way with that!

#97 minisi35

minisi35

    One Carb Or Two?

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 723 posts
  • Local Club: british mini club shropshire

Posted 28 January 2018 - 08:32 PM

Have you got a fuel filter fitted?

#98 28hodge

28hodge

    Mini Mad

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 223 posts
  • Location: North

Posted 28 January 2018 - 10:59 PM

No, and I'm starting to think it may be a good idea, I have pulled the carb before when I thought it had got low and pulled some crap through and to be fair it was spotless. Also if I shine a torch in the tank it's really clean in there I can't see any rust or muck at all.

I did pull the fuel hose off the carb and ran a couple hundred mil off into a bottle, that's when it started to run a little better so it may have gotten low, gulped some air and then gotten air locked?

#99 rally1380

rally1380

    Camshaft & Stage Two Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,893 posts
  • Location: Cheshire

Posted 29 January 2018 - 09:34 AM

I think you need to eliminate everything on the fuel side......So check the pump is working properly, does the pump have a little filter (is it blocked), are any of the fuel pipes kinked or damaged causing obstructions....it may be something daft like someone has stepped on a fuel line and flattened it.

 

Next would be the carb itself......pointless trying to fix it really but always good to have a fall back. I'd get it swapped to a Historic friendly carb (or carbs) asap so you can trouble shoot that one instead as that will be the setup you will have to use on the ToC.  Daft trying to fix the HIF44 now (if that it is even the fault) as it is costing you valuable time.....rally is only 5 weeks away

 

Electrics - make sure everything is working as it should - sometimes easier said than done, but it's simple electrics really so not overly bad to do.

 

Definitely sounds like you have a gremlin in there somewhere, but to me it sounds like a fuelling issue.



#100 28hodge

28hodge

    Mini Mad

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 223 posts
  • Location: North

Posted 29 January 2018 - 11:21 AM

Yeah, i think i ran it low and upset it, The HIF44 isnt getting money spent on it you are dead right, a HS6 is winging its way to me as we speak as although its not the ideal or preferred solution, its the simplest and quickest as it'll use the same inlet and filter. Hoping it lands by Wednesday and I can have it fit and on ready to setup over the weekend.

 

Mini ran all day Sunday perfectly and is feeling great, Gave it a blast up the dual carriageway as well and although a bit revvy and noisy it was ok, We are booked into the HRCR rally school on the 10th, and i am tempted to go in the mini rather than trailer it there, I don't have a trailer (more on this later) and hiring one is £75 for the weekend which is OK but i cant pick it up or drop it off on a weekend so it involves 2 half days off work which is more of a pain.

 

I reset the ignition at 12deg which is the max for that dizzy according to aldon and a full tank of fuel and I used it most of Sunday, i think it needs tracking but other than that its good to go (eligibility changes not withstanding)

 

Trailers, Trailers are giving me all sorts of ideas, some of them daft!!



#101 rally1380

rally1380

    Camshaft & Stage Two Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,893 posts
  • Location: Cheshire

Posted 29 January 2018 - 11:38 AM

We are booked into the HRCR rally school on the 10th, and i am tempted to go in the mini rather than trailer it there, I don't have a trailer (more on this later) and hiring one is £75 for the weekend which is OK but i cant pick it up or drop it off on a weekend so it involves 2 half days off work which is more of a pain.

 

 

Don't bother taking your mini.

 

We did the training day way back when in my wife's Diesel Focus. Yes it is a day to learn stuff, but in reality you don't need to bring a classic car as the afternoon practical sessions are tame and can be done in any car.  Think of the whole day as a learning exercise for your brains not as a shakedown for your car.....that will come when everything is 100% ready not before.

 

I know this because I know the folk who run the day as most of them (if not all) are also KDMC members and I helped run the day a couple of years back and people turned up in all sorts of cars....mostly modern.



#102 28hodge

28hodge

    Mini Mad

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 223 posts
  • Location: North

Posted 29 January 2018 - 12:37 PM

Ah ok thanks for that, the main reason to thinking to take the mini was to be able to use the trip/get some advice on how to use the trip on regularity sections in conjunction with the stopwatches etc. Basically the process of what to do when reaching ITC MTC etc with the trip, what to start/stop/pause/reset.

 

I had wondered about roughly wiring the trip into my fiesta so as to be able to get some practical experience but it would be a bit of a pain. I do have the reg instructions for last years devils own, so it may be we send the daughter to my mums one afternoon and then go out and have a practice round some of that.



#103 rally1380

rally1380

    Camshaft & Stage Two Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,893 posts
  • Location: Cheshire

Posted 29 January 2018 - 12:52 PM

Ah ok thanks for that, the main reason to thinking to take the mini was to be able to use the trip/get some advice on how to use the trip on regularity sections in conjunction with the stopwatches etc. Basically the process of what to do when reaching ITC MTC etc with the trip, what to start/stop/pause/reset.

 

I had wondered about roughly wiring the trip into my fiesta so as to be able to get some practical experience but it would be a bit of a pain. I do have the reg instructions for last years devils own, so it may be we send the daughter to my mums one afternoon and then go out and have a practice round some of that.

 

Again....don't bother if you don't HAVE to.  The morning theory will go over exactly what you have to do and when you have to do it and in reality most of the folk attending will not have a proper trip and will do the afternoons practical using the trip in the car speedo..  For the first go at a HRCR regularity rally try and make things as simple as you can for whoever is navigating for you.  There is so much to take in that average speeds and speed changes usually go out the window and going the correct route will see you get a good result.  Getting speeds sorted to the second and everything else will come with time, but trust me, it's difficult to say the least for the nav, and unless you have an experienced one, take it easy on them as it's a brain ache.

 

EDIT - I think what I'm trying to say is you need to concentrate on getting the car 100% reliable and useable before anything else. To finish first, first you must finish. Then get the nav tuned in to maps and plotting, then work on the timing side of things. By all means practice, but it is not the be all and end all and going the right route at roughly the right speed is a good starter.  If you try and give the nav too much to learn and digest it will bite you by having the nav throw the maps out of the window and say "Sod this".


Edited by rally1380, 29 January 2018 - 01:04 PM.


#104 28hodge

28hodge

    Mini Mad

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 223 posts
  • Location: North

Posted 29 January 2018 - 01:40 PM

Cheers, Mini can stay at home and can have some reliability testing done on it this next month, I would use it to go to work and back a couple times a week but its a 80mile round trip up and down the Mway so not ideal or that relevant as such, plus I may end up deaf.

 

I live in the sticks though so will aim to take it out most nights for some running.

 

Good to hear that the course will explain what to do and when to do it with relation to the trip. I have done some plotting practice from the examples on the ToC website and some others I found/was given.

 

And yes, we have had a chat about the map reading and regularities regarding speed changes and agreed to park them and concentrate on just going the right way/not throwing/not coming home divorced etc.



#105 rally1380

rally1380

    Camshaft & Stage Two Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,893 posts
  • Location: Cheshire

Posted 29 January 2018 - 03:36 PM

I'm not saying 'park' anything per say, more that I know from how I was with my wife when we started rallying, and just because I could do something, didn't necessarily mean she could and vice versa.  At the end of the day, on events like the tour of Cheshire, there is very little pressure on the driver....it's the nav who is king (or queen!) and the nav that has the mental workout.  It is a friendly event though, so if in doubt, ask someone. 

 

If your nav 'gets' average speed stuff then great, but if they don't then as long as you know roughly what speed you need to be doing then that is all you need to do for the time being.  And the most important thing is to have fun and keep wanting to come back for more as a team.....rallying is all about team work after all.






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users