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Odd Noise When Revving Engine


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#1 TheFabMini

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Posted 19 October 2017 - 06:32 PM

Hello all.
I will try and get a video clip to put on YouTube
But Ill attempt to explain. My engine idles what sounds normal to me. But if I touch the throttle and rev it a bit I get what sounds like a metal/raspy noise.. its very hard to explain but i think raspy best describes it. Im pretty sure its not a blown exhaust as on idle it sounds fine... it sounds like its coming from around the gearbox/clutch or starter motor area.
I havent been able to drive the car to test it but the clutch pedal feels fine and I can select gears and rock the car in gear so Im hoping its not a clutch problem but its still very odd...
raspy metal... flapping noise
Not a happy sound!

#2 Spider

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Posted 19 October 2017 - 09:21 PM

That reminds me of what happened to a mate's mum many years back.

 

The car was fine, she dropped in at home for half an hour after finishing work, then had to duck out to the shops. Right away, the car made a funny noise, very odd, it sounded like it was screaming. Quite concerned she raced faster to the shops, where their Mechanic also was. On getting there, the Mechanic flipped the bonnet open and their cat bolted out from within the engine bay,,,,,,,

 

 

Your noise sound to me to be a rattle / reverberation of a bracket or cover down that end of the engine bay. You might have to put your hands on a few things up there or 'tap' them to see if you can narrow it down.



#3 cal844

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Posted 19 October 2017 - 09:53 PM

A loose bracket or try the hot air inlet flap on the air box?

#4 Cooperman

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Posted 19 October 2017 - 10:21 PM

There are many things it could be, for example:

 

Worn timing chain rattling against the cover

Excess transfer gear end-float

Cracked engine front plate where the alternator bolts on

Loose bottom exhaust clamp

 

But it may be something entirely different. Impossible to diagnose without actually hearing it close up.



#5 TheFabMini

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 05:12 PM

Heres a couple of clips of how it sounds. Sounding a bit like a tractor!

https://youtu.be/zZOOb7xuKvE
https://youtu.be/SUO-QwM9Ea8

#6 Spider

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 07:34 PM

It does have a sound like a bearing somewhere has seize or worn out and maybe spinning on a shaft.

Maybe Water Pump or Alternator - run it with the belt off to check for these

 

Or if the clutch isn't adjusted or returning completely, it will cause the thrust bearing to run all the time and eventually it'll do this.

 

Or the starter motor pinion isn't returning and running with the engine.

 

<EDIT: While my friend's Mum had to check for cats, maybe you need to check for a Canary ? >


Edited by Moke Spider, 20 October 2017 - 07:36 PM.


#7 TheFabMini

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 08:17 PM

It does have a sound like a bearing somewhere has seize or worn out and maybe spinning on a shaft.

Maybe Water Pump or Alternator - run it with the belt off to check for these

 

Or if the clutch isn't adjusted or returning completely, it will cause the thrust bearing to run all the time and eventually it'll do this.

 

Or the starter motor pinion isn't returning and running with the engine.

 

<EDIT: While my friend's Mum had to check for cats, maybe you need to check for a Canary ? >

 

 

My girlfriend does call the car Tweety so maybe thats stuck under the bonnet somewhere!

 

the starter motor is newish.. well it has a date of manufacture on it from 2013, ive taken it off and all seems normal there.

 

Clutch- I think its something going on in there. I have recently replaced the clutch slave cylinder and the 2 nuts on the end of the gearbox housing had spun themselves towards the gearbox so i couldnt disengage the clutch... could this be a problem from that?



#8 cal844

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 08:28 PM

What I do is get a long screwdriver or a piece of small diameter(say 8mm) and use this to find the noise

#9 Spider

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 08:35 PM

I see you have a Verto Clutch.

 

I've no experience with them sorry to say - you'll have to refer to a higher source, but could well be related to that.

 

While running, are you able to lever the clutch plunger out (away from the engine) ?



#10 cal844

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 08:51 PM

I see you have a Verto Clutch.
 
I've no experience with them sorry to say - you'll have to refer to a higher source, but could well be related to that.
 
While running, are you able to lever the clutch plunger out (away from the engine) ?


Adjust the inner(flanged) nut to 6.5mm from the clutch cover(wok) it's detailed in Haynes(upto X registration) chapter part 2 page 6.2

HTH

#11 TheFabMini

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 08:54 PM

I see you have a Verto Clutch.

 

I've no experience with them sorry to say - you'll have to refer to a higher source, but could well

 

 

I see you have a Verto Clutch.
 
I've no experience with them sorry to say - you'll have to refer to a higher source, but could well be related to that.
 
While running, are you able to lever the clutch plunger out (away from the engine) ?


Adjust the inner(flanged) nut to 6.5mm from the clutch cover(wok) it's detailed in Haynes(upto X registration) chapter part 2 page 6.2

HTH

 

 

 

 

I will take another look at this tomorrow when i get back from work.

just to check, when adjusting the inner nut do I do this with the clutch pedal pushed down or not? 



#12 Spider

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 09:05 PM

I'll add here too, that if in fact it is the Clutch Thrust Bearing not returning completely, even after sorting it's return, I'd say you will need to replace the bearing too.



#13 TheFabMini

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 09:09 PM

I'll add here too, that if in fact it is the Clutch Thrust Bearing not returning completely, even after sorting it's return, I'd say you will need to replace the bearing too.


Is this a job that an idiot with a spanner can do or should I get a real man to fix it for me?
Something Ill add (if it helps diagnose my problem) is the car struggles to start up unless I push down the clutch pedal. Ive only ever owned modern cars where you usually have to push down the clutch pedal for the ignition to even work so its habit for me but when I got a friend to start the car up and he didnt push down the clutch it seemed like the starter motor didnt have enough power to spin the engine. Push down the clutch pedal and it spins overs happily

#14 Spider

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 09:53 PM

Hmmmm,,,,,, OK,,,,,,,

 

Changing the Bearing isn't too difficult though you'll need some means of removing the old bearing and fitting the new one. A Press is handy here, or a bearing puller and a vice sometime will get the job done.

 

I gotta say, I'm dead against pressing the clutch on these cars (and most for that matter) in order to start them. It loads up the crank thrusts when there's no oil flowing. Yes, I know how the new cars are,,,,

 

However,,,,,

 

This may help narrow down the issue (maybe not either). I'm now wondering if the noise is a screw that's too long going in to the flywheel housing? Pressing the clutch will shift the crank ever so slightly (or should only be) up towards the radiator. It could be an engine mount bolt in the clutch cover, timing cover screws, bolts that hold the bracket for the clutch slave in place or any other screws that go into this housing (though not likely to be those holding the clutch cover (wok) on).

 

<EDIT: I'm also wondering if you also have excessive Crankshaft End Float too. This would be from worn Crank Thrust Washers. >


Edited by Moke Spider, 20 October 2017 - 09:54 PM.


#15 TheFabMini

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 06:50 AM

Hmmmm,,,,,, OK,,,,,,,
 
Changing the Bearing isn't too difficult though you'll need some means of removing the old bearing and fitting the new one. A Press is handy here, or a bearing puller and a vice sometime will get the job done.
 
I gotta say, I'm dead against pressing the clutch on these cars (and most for that matter) in order to start them. It loads up the crank thrusts when there's no oil flowing. Yes, I know how the new cars are,,,,
 
However,,,,,
 
This may help narrow down the issue (maybe not either). I'm now wondering if the noise is a screw that's too long going in to the flywheel housing? Pressing the clutch will shift the crank ever so slightly (or should only be) up towards the radiator. It could be an engine mount bolt in the clutch cover, timing cover screws, bolts that hold the bracket for the clutch slave in place or any other screws that go into this housing (though not likely to be those holding the clutch cover (wok) on).
 
<EDIT: I'm also wondering if you also have excessive Crankshaft End Float too. This would be from worn Crank Thrust Washers. >



All of these things sound rather bad... As Ive said before Im very much at the amateur end of the scale with mechanics. I can unbolt things and put new bits on but to be honest the bits I take off I have very little understanding of how they work or what they are suppose to do.
What would you be inclined to check first? As in what should I unbolt and look at whilst scratching my head 😂




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