20 replies to this topic

[cal844]

You'll need to take that nut off then pull the pin out of the subframe (both sides obviously). 
The subframe should then drop down.
 
The pins look like this:
http://www.minispare...|Back to search

 
Thanks :) 
 
They're a bit pricey aren't they for something that's just a metal pin?!

Can get them on eBay cheaper, also get new nuts

[GraemeC]

MiniSpares also do non-genuine at £8

[Cooper Mac]

  Its unfortunate but the bolts have sheared off long, which is unusual, I guess there has been some not so good bolts used before.....either use stainless or blather the new ones in copper slip when rebuilding.

NO, NO, NO!!!!!!! NEVER USE STAINLESS FITTINGS ON SUSPENSION, BRAKES OR ENGINE COMPONENTS!!!!!!

This is a common misconception and can be fatal and harder work in the long run. There are many different grades of stainless and they have to be chosen very carefully for the materials which they are fixing to and the environment which they will live in.

Unless you are having stainless fittings made for you from the correct grade of material, it just isn't worth it. The stainless bolts you can buy off the shelf are no where near as strong as their mild steel counterparts and the torque values listed in all the manuals need to be wildly different.

Just because the fixing is "stainless" doesn't mean that it won't corrode, but worse, if you use a stainless fitting in mild steel in a damp environment (e.g. Rear subframe) this will accelerate the corrosion of the steel body!

If you think it is bad enough getting mild steel parts apart, try getting stainless to stainless parts apart if not lubricated, impossible! With stainless to stainless you get galling, where the threads tear and so do not move freely over each other and rip the thread often becoming seized solid.

Stainless fittings will not take the same load as carbon steel, so must not be used on safety critical parts. If you want to bolt your exhaust together with them, or some small accessories which don't take any load, that's fine.

Using stainless fitting is worse than people using metric sockets on imperial fittings as far as I'm concerned, neither of which should be tried.......

[Retroman]

 

  Its unfortunate but the bolts have sheared off long, which is unusual, I guess there has been some not so good bolts used before.....either use stainless or blather the new ones in copper slip when rebuilding.

NO, NO, NO!!!!!!! NEVER USE STAINLESS FITTINGS ON SUSPENSION, BRAKES OR ENGINE COMPONENTS!!!!!!

This is a common misconception and can be fatal and harder work in the long run. There are many different grades of stainless and they have to be chosen very carefully for the materials which they are fixing to and the environment which they will live in.

Unless you are having stainless fittings made for you from the correct grade of material, it just isn't worth it. The stainless bolts you can buy off the shelf are no where near as strong as their mild steel counterparts and the torque values listed in all the manuals need to be wildly different.

Just because the fixing is "stainless" doesn't mean that it won't corrode, but worse, if you use a stainless fitting in mild steel in a damp environment (e.g. Rear subframe) this will accelerate the corrosion of the steel body!

If you think it is bad enough getting mild steel parts apart, try getting stainless to stainless parts apart if not lubricated, impossible! With stainless to stainless you get galling, where the threads tear and so do not move freely over each other and rip the thread often becoming seized solid.

Stainless fittings will not take the same load as carbon steel, so must not be used on safety critical parts. If you want to bolt your exhaust together with them, or some small accessories which don't take any load, that's fine.

Using stainless fitting is worse than people using metric sockets on imperial fittings as far as I'm concerned, neither of which should be tried.......

 

  

   Cooper Mac, I would say fair comment, but its not…. have added my comments in  bold italics  to each one in turn of yours;

 

NO, NO, NO!!!!!!! NEVER USE STAINLESS FITTINGS ON SUSPENSION, BRAKES OR ENGINE COMPONENTS!!!!!!

 

OK Calm down, your reaction is completely OTT, and wrong in most places.

   Obviously don’t use stainless bolts in any brake, clutch, crank or gearbox high stress situations, nobody should do that. Suspension wise they are ok as nuts for the front top arm nuts, radius arms, damper pins nuts and radius arm brackets, and trunnion nuts too. They are also used in the handbrake quads on the radius arms, brake drums and radius arm back plates, and every bolt for the back subframe.

 

This is a common misconception and can be fatal and harder work in the long run. There are many different grades of stainless and they have to be chosen very carefully for the materials which they are fixing to and the environment which they will live in.

   You are correct, it’s your misconception.    It’s easier and better in the long run, that’s precisely why hundreds of Mini enthusiasts use stainless bolts and nuts in various places on their Minis, me and Petrol Pete included.

 

If there has there been any accidents or fatal crashes, please let me know, with proof, not just hearsay.

   There are not  'many different grades'  of stainless….and very few when compared to carbon / alloy steels.

 

Unless you are having stainless fittings made for you from the correct grade of material, it just isn't worth it. The stainless bolts you can buy off the shelf are no where near as strong as their mild steel counterparts and the torque values listed in all the manuals need to be wildly different.

    The stainless bolts we supply and use are DIN/ISO A2 Stainless Steel which is a Corrosion Resistant Steel only about 15% weaker than 8.8 grade alloy steel, and stronger than carbon steel, (see chart below).

   They are not some cheap nasty crap made from shiney toffee from some far eastern pot metal shop.  They are  ENGINEERED  IN  ENGLAND.

   Our supplier does them for many different cars and motorsports applications too, including 4x4 and has done for many years. We would not entertain them if they were in anyway unsafe, and the supplier would be behind bars if they were unsuitable.

 

Just because the fixing is "stainless" doesn't mean that it won't corrode, but worse, if you use a stainless fitting in mild steel in a damp environment (e.g. Rear subframe) this will accelerate the corrosion of the steel body!

    Neither me or Pete (Petrol on Mini Forum) are fitting them because we are magpies: We fit them firstly as they are more than upto the job and secondly because they don’t corrode and don’t cause corrosion in the steel nut or the body. We are both old-school perfectionists, with many many years experience.

    The standard 8.8 grade alloy steel “bolts” that hold the rear subframe on are the most troublesome bolts on any Mini. Replacing them with stainless does not make the body corrode, it does that anyway, and later cars from about ’79 are worse.

   There is no ‘galvanic corrosion’ effect on the body from a few stainless bolts. Steel on steel is the worst, and contact with aluminium can also be bad.

  The A2-70 stainless used for vehicles has slightly less chromium content than A4, but enough to stop corrosion and is stronger than A4, which is used at sea, to replace steel.

   Unprotected steel rusts readily when exposed to air and moisture. This iron oxide film (the rust) accelerates corrosion by forming more iron oxide, which is why the 8.8 grade steel set screws very often seize in the nuts and can grow into the trunnions on a Mini. Stainless steels contain sufficient chromium to form a passive film of chromium oxide, which prevents further surface corrosion and blocks corrosion from spreading into the metal’s internal structure.

 

If you think it is bad enough getting mild steel parts apart, try getting stainless to stainless parts apart if not lubricated, impossible! With stainless to stainless you get galling, where the threads tear and so do not move freely over each other and rip the thread often becoming seized solid. Obviously grandma and eggs, or maybe galls.

     Does anything cause more rust and hassle from snapping than the standard rear subframe “bolts”?... they are a nightmare.

   How strong is a rusted 8.8 grade bolt? I also note that the standard “bolts” are in fact set screws, not full bolts with a shank, so again another weakness of the standard crap “bolts”, it’s no wonder some of them snap as soon as you pick a spanner up. Jesus some of them are even spiral fluted…how much does that weaken them by? All the subframe bolts I supply are true bolts with a shank, and no spiral fluting.

   The only time I have ever had a subframe bolt snap whilst driving was a bog standard Mini, in a 30mph zone. I have used stainless bolts to hold beam axle crossmembers on with no issues, driving at the limit…90+ in 3^rd on the twisty black stuff, yumps, you name it.

   Its not uncommon to come across standard subframe "bolts" actually snapped and left in or missing, and the car still driven.

 

Stainless fittings will not take the same load as carbon steel, so must not be used on safety critical parts. If you want to bolt your exhaust together with them, or some small accessories which don't take any load, that's fine.

   A2-70 is stronger than carbon steel, and only about 15% less in tension than 8.8 grade alloy steel.

 

 

 

 

 

Using stainless fitting is worse than people using metric sockets on imperial fittings as far as I'm concerned, neither of which should be tried.......

   AND those wonderful standard steel set screws on back subframes are the main culprits that need a 12mm socket brayed on to grip the badly corroded heads, which round off easily, sometimes even with a six sided ½”AF socket and heat on the rusted solid threads / nuts…occasionally they will also seize in the actual trunnion, as well as the captive nuts.

  

   How many people use stainless wheel nuts?...The ones from KAD on my magnesium wheels do and the spun alloys from Force racing, I actually rebolted the spilt rims with stainless....guess why?….and all the bolts on the Maguire rear beam and tubular radius arms….

 

 

Draw your own conclusions as to why I use stainless subframe bolts and recommend them to all.

 

Someone pass me a bolt testing machine....

[cal844]

 

  Its unfortunate but the bolts have sheared off long, which is unusual, I guess there has been some not so good bolts used before.....either use stainless or blather the new ones in copper slip when rebuilding.

NO, NO, NO!!!!!!! NEVER USE STAINLESS FITTINGS ON SUSPENSION, BRAKES OR ENGINE COMPONENTS!!!!!!

This is a common misconception and can be fatal and harder work in the long run. There are many different grades of stainless and they have to be chosen very carefully for the materials which they are fixing to and the environment which they will live in.

Unless you are having stainless fittings made for you from the correct grade of material, it just isn't worth it. The stainless bolts you can buy off the shelf are no where near as strong as their mild steel counterparts and the torque values listed in all the manuals need to be wildly different.

Just because the fixing is "stainless" doesn't mean that it won't corrode, but worse, if you use a stainless fitting in mild steel in a damp environment (e.g. Rear subframe) this will accelerate the corrosion of the steel body!

If you think it is bad enough getting mild steel parts apart, try getting stainless to stainless parts apart if not lubricated, impossible! With stainless to stainless you get galling, where the threads tear and so do not move freely over each other and rip the thread often becoming seized solid.

Stainless fittings will not take the same load as carbon steel, so must not be used on safety critical parts. If you want to bolt your exhaust together with them, or some small accessories which don't take any load, that's fine.

Using stainless fitting is worse than people using metric sockets on imperial fittings as far as I'm concerned, neither of which should be tried.......
 

  
   Cooper Mac, I would say fair comment, but its not. have added my comments in  bold italics  to each one in turn of yours;
 
NO, NO, NO!!!!!!! NEVER USE STAINLESS FITTINGS ON SUSPENSION, BRAKES OR ENGINE COMPONENTS!!!!!!
 
OK Calm down, your reaction is completely OTT, and wrong in most places.
   Obviously dont use stainless bolts in any brake, clutch, crank or gearbox high stress situations, nobody should do that. Suspension wise they are ok as nuts for the front top arm nuts, radius arms, damper pins nuts and radius arm brackets, and trunnion nuts too. They are also used in the handbrake quads on the radius arms, brake drums and radius arm back plates, and every bolt for the back subframe.
 
This is a common misconception and can be fatal and harder work in the long run. There are many different grades of stainless and they have to be chosen very carefully for the materials which they are fixing to and the environment which they will live in.
   You are correct, its your misconception.    Its easier and better in the long run, thats precisely why hundreds of Mini enthusiasts use stainless bolts and nuts in various places on their Minis, me and Petrol Pete included.
 
If there has there been any accidents or fatal crashes, please let me know, with proof, not just hearsay.
   There are not  'many different grades'  of stainless.and very few when compared to carbon / alloy steels.
 
Unless you are having stainless fittings made for you from the correct grade of material, it just isn't worth it. The stainless bolts you can buy off the shelf are no where near as strong as their mild steel counterparts and the torque values listed in all the manuals need to be wildly different.
    The stainless bolts we supply and use are DIN/ISO A2 Stainless Steel which is a Corrosion Resistant Steel only about 15% weaker than 8.8 grade alloy steel, and stronger than carbon steel, (see chart below).
   They are not some cheap nasty crap made from shiney toffee from some far eastern pot metal shop.  They are  ENGINEERED  IN  ENGLAND.
   Our supplier does them for many different cars and motorsports applications too, including 4x4 and has done for many years. We would not entertain them if they were in anyway unsafe, and the supplier would be behind bars if they were unsuitable.
 
Just because the fixing is "stainless" doesn't mean that it won't corrode, but worse, if you use a stainless fitting in mild steel in a damp environment (e.g. Rear subframe) this will accelerate the corrosion of the steel body!
    Neither me or Pete (Petrol on Mini Forum) are fitting them because we are magpies: We fit them firstly as they are more than upto the job and secondly because they dont corrode and dont cause corrosion in the steel nut or the body. We are both old-school perfectionists, with many many years experience.
    The standard 8.8 grade alloy steel bolts that hold the rear subframe on are the most troublesome bolts on any Mini. Replacing them with stainless does not make the body corrode, it does that anyway, and later cars from about 79 are worse.
   There is no galvanic corrosion effect on the body from a few stainless bolts. Steel on steel is the worst, and contact with aluminium can also be bad.
  The A2-70 stainless used for vehicles has slightly less chromium content than A4, but enough to stop corrosion and is stronger than A4, which is used at sea, to replace steel.
   Unprotected steel rusts readily when exposed to air and moisture. This iron oxide film (the rust) accelerates corrosion by forming more iron oxide, which is why the 8.8 grade steel set screws very often seize in the nuts and can grow into the trunnions on a Mini. Stainless steels contain sufficient chromium to form a passive film of chromium oxide, which prevents further surface corrosion and blocks corrosion from spreading into the metals internal structure.
 
If you think it is bad enough getting mild steel parts apart, try getting stainless to stainless parts apart if not lubricated, impossible! With stainless to stainless you get galling, where the threads tear and so do not move freely over each other and rip the thread often becoming seized solid. Obviously grandma and eggs, or maybe galls.
     Does anything cause more rust and hassle from snapping than the standard rear subframe bolts?... they are a nightmare.
   How strong is a rusted 8.8 grade bolt? I also note that the standard bolts are in fact set screws, not full bolts with a shank, so again another weakness of the standard crap bolts, its no wonder some of them snap as soon as you pick a spanner up. Jesus some of them are even spiral flutedhow much does that weaken them by? All the subframe bolts I supply are true bolts with a shank, and no spiral fluting.
   The only time I have ever had a subframe bolt snap whilst driving was a bog standard Mini, in a 30mph zone. I have used stainless bolts to hold beam axle crossmembers on with no issues, driving at the limit90+ in 3^rd on the twisty black stuff, yumps, you name it.
   Its not uncommon to come across standard subframe "bolts" actually snapped and left in or missing, and the car still driven.
 
Stainless fittings will not take the same load as carbon steel, so must not be used on safety critical parts. If you want to bolt your exhaust together with them, or some small accessories which don't take any load, that's fine.
   A2-70 is stronger than carbon steel, and only about 15% less in tension than 8.8 grade alloy steel.
 
 
 
 
 
Using stainless fitting is worse than people using metric sockets on imperial fittings as far as I'm concerned, neither of which should be tried.......
   AND those wonderful standard steel set screws on back subframes are the main culprits that need a 12mm socket brayed on to grip the badly corroded heads, which round off easily, sometimes even with a six sided ½AF socket and heat on the rusted solid threads / nutsoccasionally they will also seize in the actual trunnion, as well as the captive nuts.
  
   How many people use stainless wheel nuts?...The ones from KAD on my magnesium wheels do and the spun alloys from Force racing, I actually rebolted the spilt rims with stainless....guess why?.and all the bolts on the Maguire rear beam and tubular radius arms.
 
 
Draw your own conclusions as to why I use stainless subframe bolts and recommend them to all.
 
Someone pass me a bolt testing machine....

.

I too buy a stainless bolt kit, mine came from old skool minis 😁

Also I spy a Hoosier slick, could you post a link to a thread with more pictures of the car please?!

[Dusky]

I wont quote retroman because I want to avoid creating a long quote train .
Anyway,"there is no galvanic corrosion"
Lets start by saying that's wrong. You're literally creating a battery.Just simple chemistry.
Also, A2 is prone to chloride corrosion/cracking when exposed to salt. Better dont be driving it in the winter.
Why did TVR stop using stainless chassis.
Why is stainless banned by the MSA?
You also seem to be banging on about 'only' losing 15% strenght. But fail to realise you lose 30% of your .2% yield. And these are simple facts, I dont care how many nutters use them in 4x4 or how dangerous rusted 8.8 bolts are. You are supposed to drive a safe car,without rusted bolts. But everyone has to make a living I suppose.