40 replies to this topic

[silver_toes]

So, I've been watching a MK3 Cooper S which came up for auction recently. The auction final sale price was £22,550.

 

The car has just appeared for sale on e-bay at £32,000 !!!

 

Are people really paying these prices these days ?

[mab01uk]

Note: These cars are often not bought by enthusiasts but investors /car collectors who pay no Capital Gains tax on selling a classic car on at a good profit, unlike they would with property investments, etc.

 

1960 Austin Mini Countryman De-Luxe
"This lovely looking, London supplied Mini Estate is believed to be the second oldest surviving Austin Seven Countryman, its build date of 16th June 1960 being three months before the official launch date. As the Heritage certificate confirms, it was supplied in Tartan Red (as it is today) and with the plate that it still sports (4507 MH) to a Mr John Buck by Car Mart Limited and the date of despatch was 25th July 1960.
The registration document infers that the car was then listed for sale almost immediately and was purchased by the second owner, a Mr John Hurford who owned the car for the majority of its life. It subsequently made its way onto Ebay in 2011 where it was purchased by the third owner, Mr Nigel Howard who embarked on a sympathetic rebuild. The paint was refreshed to the tune of over £7000 and the woodwork removed, refinished and refitted although the interior Longstone vinyl trim and and cloth headlining have been retained. The original engine and mechanicals have been rebuilt and detailed and there are invoices for whatever was needed. The fourth and final owner part exchanged it with us and we drove it back from deepest darkest Devon to our Dealership in Sussex. It was wonderful!
Supporting documentation is equally as charming, particularly the hand written invoices, old MOT certificates and tax discs which date back from the mid '60s. More recent documentation include exchanges from various Mini Clubs, Registers and owners (to which the car is well known) and a photo album detailing works completed.
This really has to be a one off opportunity - one of five preproduction Minis of the earliest type with the straight gearlever, floor start and internal tank (which incidentally is still in its vinyl shroud), four owners and only 78000 miles. This is museum quality and brings a smile to everyone who sees her!"
https://www.arunltd....-sussex-6209985

Edited by mab01uk, 31 October 2017 - 12:59 PM.

[r3k1355]

The market has started to slide abit on many classics though, it was obvious a bubble was forming and prices on more run of the mill stuff is falling.

Cooper S was always a well sought after vehicle though, but anyone approaching from a purely investment stance should still be careful.

 

Unless prices really tank you'll still see these cars being advertised for big money.

[Ben_O]

There is often a huge difference between what people think the car is worth and what someone is willing to pay for it.

I can't help but think that the mk3 on eBay (assuming you mean the teal blue one) is hugely overpriced.

[Spider]

There was an Australian MKII Cooper S - nothing otherwise remarkable about it - that sold at auction here only about 2 weeks ago for $91 000 AUD (About 52 000 quid).

 

I have noticed a few similar cars in the UK selling, usually at auction, for amounts from 80 000 to 185 000 Pounds over the past 18 months or so, though I don't go looking, these are ones that 'fall' in front of me.

 

Here in Aust, our residential real estate roughly doubles in value every 7 years. The Real Estate Institute only a few weeks came out and said that over the past 20 years, Vintage Cars was out performed Real Estate and Stocks.

 

The people who are paying these sorts of money though are not typical car enthusiasts but collectors, some who may show the cars, but they would be very seldom driven.

[Itsaminithing]

If mab01uk thinks that Countryman is correct then it's probably worth the money.

.... but at £32k that MK3 is a joke

It wasn't restored- it's just a Mk4 with the VIN plate, engine, & some other bits from the original car lobbed on it, they didn't even bother to swap the pedal box or heater over!

[mab01uk]

So, I've been watching a MK3 Cooper S which came up for auction recently. The auction final sale price was £22,550.

 

The car has just appeared for sale on e-bay at £32,000 !!!

 

Are people really paying these prices these days ?

 

According to the Mk1 Forum it is a MK4 shell .. and it said that it had been re-shelled in the auction description on Saturday ...

https://www.carandcl....uk/car/C929423

[CityEPete]

I think the right cars will continue to increase but the cars with questionable history will start to suffer, the older rally boys that turn a blind eye to stripping a mint 850 to 'rebuild an important car' are dying off year on year, a time will come when the mint 850 would have become of more interest to a larger audience than the rally rep and hence more value. Yes a mint original 1275 S will always be worth more than a mint 850 but a pair of twin SUs thrown on a 1973 shell does not make a mint mk1 Cooper S.

The big money is already shifting towards the next generation of motorsport fans with cash to invest hence the group B cars and even 90s cars fetching big money.

Edited by CityEPete, 31 October 2017 - 08:16 PM.

[mk3 Cooper S]

Lots not original

 

Incorrect Grille, seats, pedal box,shell

 

To name a few.

 

Two owners etc implies it is genuine - which bothers me

Edited by mk3 Cooper S, 31 October 2017 - 10:46 PM.

[Itsaminithing]

I look at it this way....

If i fit a Honda engine, steering column, lights, & door cards to a Mini it doesn't make it a Honda -it's a Mini fitted with some Honda parts.

If i fit a Mk3 S engine, steering column, lights, & door cards  to a MK4 it doesn't make it a MK3 S -its a Mk4 fitted with some Mk3 S parts.

 

A lot of people view the Mk3 as being virtually the same as a MK4, they are totally different.... different roof, different side panels, rear bulkhead, front bulkhead, front subframe, doors, door step, etc, etc.

[silver_toes]

 

So, I've been watching a MK3 Cooper S which came up for auction recently. The auction final sale price was £22,550.

 

The car has just appeared for sale on e-bay at £32,000 !!!

 

Are people really paying these prices these days ?

 

According to the Mk1 Forum it is a MK4 shell .. and it said that it had been re-shelled in the auction description on Saturday ...

https://www.carandcl....uk/car/C929423

 

 

I didn't know it had been re-shelled. That makes it an even worse investment. I guess my thought process really was that if you are an investor, you're going to take time to research the vehicle and check you're buying the right thing. It doesn't take much digging to see that the car recently sold for £10k less than the current seller has it advertised for.

 

In a way I think it's a bit of a shame because it's taking away opportunities for enthusiasts to own these vehicles. Many of these vehicles go into private collections never to been seen/enjoyed again

[mab01uk]

The worry about re-shells is a recent thing as certain Minis like the Cooper S became much more highly valued and collectable.......many of them would not be around today if they had not been re-shelled in the 1970's and 80's when it was not worth repairing an original shell, in the days when you could buy a good solid 'donor' car like a low mileage 850 Automatic Mk1/2/3 instead. People would have thought you mad if you went to the lengths of panel replacement seen today on early Mini's to retain an original shell!

[r3k1355]

I think the right cars will continue to increase but the cars with questionable history will start to suffer, 

 

 

The cars won't suffer, it's the owners that will.

 

As they become more popular as a money-making enterprise the market is going to be flooded with naive and un-informed buyers with pocketfuls of cash looking to make a quick buck.

They'll spend 20-30 grand on a total lemon, only realising their folly when they attempt to liquidate the asset and realise their peach is a rotten old pear.

 

Imagine trying to explain that kind of loss to the wife!!

 

 

The worry about re-shells is a recent thing as certain Minis like the Cooper S became much more highly valued and collectable.......many of them would not be around today if they had not been re-shelled in the 1970's and 80's when it was not worth repairing an original shell, in the days when you could buy a good solid 'donor' car like a low mileage 850 Automatic Mk1/2/3 instead. People would have thought you mad if you went to the lengths of panel replacement seen today on early Mini's to retain an original shell!

 

 

Back then the cars were only worth a few bob so details didn't matter.

Now the cars are worth tens of thousands and detail is everything.

 

The value of a genuine car is in the details, if it's had an obvious/poor reshell job it's worthless as an investment piece.

Worse than that it's a dangerous investment as you very well end up stuck with it.

[CityEPete]

Surely that's a contradiction?

If these stupid investors will keep buying lemons at big prices it doesn't matter if you buy one yourself.


I think the market is more experienced than we give credit, many people will use an expert to locate a particular car, the good cars will get more and more valuable as the provenance gets better changing hands from expert to expert, the mpi on a 60s v5 won't even get on their radar.

[r3k1355]

Surely that's a contradiction?

If these stupid investors will keep buying lemons at big prices it doesn't matter if you buy one yourself.

 

Depends on where they are bought and where or if they are sold.

Naive investor type buys from a small-time 'Specialist' dealer.  Shiny car, well described with a friendly salesman - but they end up with a turd.

 

Come to service it, take it to a show or whatever and the various flaws are pointed out, muffled comments made about it being a mongrel

 

Yes you can employ the services of an agent or someone to locate a really good example, yes you will end up with a better car.

But it all costs money, and you know there will always be some people who will forgo those costs to buy as low as possible and maximise profit.

 

Given the sheer amount of money involved in vehicles like a Cooper S there will always be people trying to sell something thats less than authentic.

Whether it's had a dodgy re-shell job or is simply a flat-pack classic, if the money is there people will try it on.

Edited by r3k1355, 01 November 2017 - 05:33 PM.