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Complete Dash/switch Makeover.


Best Answer happydude2012 , 01 December 2017 - 10:08 PM

thanks for your awesome input guys, appreciated as always, wired by wilson is sorting it. 

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#1 happydude2012

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 04:43 PM

Alright lads and lasses.

Im rebuilding the dash in a more race style - dont like the "proper" dash set up and as im going GPS/ digital with the speedo - i can ditch the analogue clocks too.

So, clean slate - blank canvas.

 

1991 mark 3 by the way.

 

 

Couple of questions for the tech savvy set.

Some of the purists will no doubt scoff and mock and ask why oh why, but im trying to create something new and 21st century for my car, helpful answers appreciated.

 

1) Can i scrap the old 4 x rocker switches and replace them with toggles? - saw a thread some time ago with this on but it didnt really answer the question.

I have a misguided idea that provided the toggles are the same pole and position as the rockers, this can be done like for like almost with just new connectors.?

If anyone has a wiring diagram or experience of doing exactly what im on about that would be realy helpful, the haynes wiring diagrams are not helpful....i spat my tea out when i first opened the book on wiring diagrams.....But they are very pretty.

 

2) Can i make the wiper stalk a toggle switch also?

 

3) Im fitting a secret battery cut off in line with a flashy "aircraft" style push start - can this be done in such a way so i can do away with the key entirely? the battery cut off would be hidden under the dash or somewhere and would prevent power reaching the switch so billy burglar would be deterred on the fact they cant get to, or see any of the ignition wires.

 

 

thanks guys



#2 nicklouse

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 04:56 PM

talk to wiredbywilson
http://www.theminifo...-wiredbywilson/
http://www.theminifo...1750-delivered/
and do not rely on a battery cut out switch. your insurance will just laugh at you.

PS when found you can start the car in seconds.

#3 Northernpower

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 05:06 PM

Personally I like them but the construction and use regs won't allow toggle switches on your age of car. If you were unfortunate enough to get a pedantic MOT tester who'd just been on a refresher he'd fail it and the fail reason would be on the MOT history, meaning you'd have to change them every time you wanted an MOT.



#4 SolarB

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 05:10 PM

That's a new one on me. What's wrong with toggle switches?



#5 panky

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 05:19 PM

They're pointy, but you could get the type with a flip up cover. 



#6 Northernpower

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 07:23 PM

That's a new one on me. What's wrong with toggle switches?

Nothing wrong with them as long as they're protected, look at them in the early Bini's.

#7 MiniMonty

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 11:24 PM

That's very interesting....  What's the story on a pedantic MOT tester failing it for the wrong kind of switches?   Surely a switch is a switch is a switch - right? 

On the wiring diagram there is a symbol for a switch so if the OP installs a switch (of any sort) it should be OK - right ?

Toggles or push buttons or rockers shouldn't make a difference (in my clearly uninformed mind).

 

I am genuinely interested to find out how this might not be OK...   And what's the deal with them having to be "protected" ?

Protected from what or by what ?

 

Best wishes

Monty



#8 gazza82

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 11:25 PM

Something like this?

https://www.carbuild...e-switch-guards

#9 Northernpower

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 12:10 AM

That's very interesting....  What's the story on a pedantic MOT tester failing it for the wrong kind of switches?   Surely a switch is a switch is a switch - right? 
On the wiring diagram there is a symbol for a switch so if the OP installs a switch (of any sort) it should be OK - right ?
Toggles or push buttons or rockers shouldn't make a difference (in my clearly uninformed mind).
 
I am genuinely interested to find out how this might not be OK...   And what's the deal with them having to be "protected" ?
Protected from what or by what ?
 
Best wishes
Monty

It used to be ok but as society became more safety conscious sticky out bits both inside and outside of the car became banned. Have a look at the regs for registering a self build and you'll gain a better understanding.

#10 tiger99

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 12:25 AM

I don't want to be discouraging, but it has to meet the Construction and Use Regulations as they were on the day it was first registered. That means no pointy switches, nor "protected" switches are automatically acceptable, UNLESS THEY WERE TYPE APPROVED IN YOUR MODEL OF MINI. Just because something has been made legal (barely) in a Bini does not even begin to suggest that is legal elsewhere. It is type approved where it was tested ONLY. We have seen that previously with LED or HID headlights, and other items.

 

The lack of legality of toggle switches is somewhat unfortunate because the original Mini toggle switches were supremely reliable, unlike the rockers which replaced them. They operated with a satisfying clunk. I would like to be able to use them, but would not want to butcher a Mini old enough to use them.

 

There may be one way forward, which is to get a copy of the IVA tester's manual (Google for it, free download), and go meticulously through the parts relating to interior protrusions, making sure that your modifications comply fully. The other way is to put all non-compliant items in the "protected zone" forward of the steering wheel, where they will not be contactable in an accident. But that is not good for ergonomics.

 

You will not be able to find a toggle switch with the correct internal wiring for the hazard flasher function. I have been looking for one for years. It is very difficult to get anything at all, except the genuine Mini rocker. Large toggles are rapidly going out of fashion in industry generally, and the miniature variety are not adequate. So at best, that will get you into some tedious jiggery-pokery with relays.

 

As for your GPS speedo, that is blatantly illegal, unless the GPS system is only automatically calibrating a conventional speedo which senses wheel rotational speed. The speedo is required by law to work at ALL TIMES, and GPS may fail among tall buildings, in deep cuttings, and ALWAYS in tunnels. Use of GPS alone is liable to invalidate your insurance and/or result in prosecution and a criminal record. Don't expect the law to ever be changed, as the fundamental problem cannot be overcome no matter what you do in the car. But you "can" be clever and have an electronic display (bearing in mind the other legal requirement for permanently recording elapsed mileage, independent of battery power, which absolutely mandates EEPROM or flash memory of some kind). That can all be overcome, and most Digidash devices are probably legal for road use. Your primary speed source cannot be GPS but the fact that it is coming from wheel speed need not be visible. You could be clever and use an optical system under the car, somewhat like the way an optical mouse works, except with a large air gap, with camera and infra-red illumination to detect the speed of passing irregularities in the road surface, because if well done, that will work everywhere.



#11 mini-mad-mark

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 09:38 PM

Ignoring the legalities or aesthetics of changing backwards to toggle switches, I have done that in my 1981 with Lucas toggle switches Mk 2 mini style (or as fitted to many other British cars)

 

You can work the hazard lights off a two position toggle switch if you use the first position for one circuit and the second position for the other so you have to use both positions for both sides to flash (this is done to isolate/prevent the indicators from back working through the hazard circuit)

 

The cool thing is that I can turn on the right hand indicator and the first position of the hazard switch (connected to the left indicator circuit) and because of the variation in the two flasher units the right and left indicators flash at different frequencies so it looks rather funky as they flash together at one point ant then as they cycle though the variation  they flash at completely the opposite time at one point  :teehee:

 

Yes you can do wipers with the right switch - again was done on many British cars with Lucas switches (other brands are available...!) 

 

I think the issue is the format of most the modern toggle switches isn't the same as the Lucas ones but I defer that to the real experts - I guess because they are not really supposed to be used much these days (back to the projection issue) and most things have separate special switches in modern cars (eg headlights/rear fog and even front fogs sometimes on a special switch or wipers front and rear and washers on a single stalk)  so the toggle switch is only used these days for very simple single pole on/off switched circuits, if at all - Apart from the Bini I am struggling to think where I have seen one lately (done in the Bini for retro fashion of course)

 

If you look at a two position Lucas toggle there are several terminals (6 or 7 I think) and you just need to work out which are connected at which position of the switch to work out what you want to do with you circuit/s (one position stays permanently live even with the switch in the off position to work the park function for wiper circuits)

 

However I am not a professional so I would not recommend or tell anyone how/what to do with electrics to achieve this; as has been pointed out you could start an unintentional bonfire if you are not very careful  :ohno:

 

Regards



#12 mini-mad-mark

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 09:41 PM

Sorry to clarify what I said at the end

 

If you look at a two position Lucas toggle there are several terminals (6 or 7 I think) and you just need to work out which are connected at which position of the switch to work out what you want to do with you circuit/s (one position stays permanently live even with the switch in the off position to work the park function for wiper circuits)

 

What I meant is that two positions are connected when the switch is in the off position to provide a live feed to the park circuit

 

Apologies



#13 imack

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 09:58 PM

You might fail an iva test for pointy toggle switches but I'm absolutely certain that the style of switch has nothing to do with the mot test.
Mot is only a test to meet minimum standards of road worthiness, its only really interested in if a switch works and is secure.

#14 happydude2012

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Posted 01 December 2017 - 10:08 PM   Best Answer

thanks for your awesome input guys, appreciated as always, wired by wilson is sorting it. 



#15 nicklouse

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 12:15 AM

and dont forget these

http://www.theminifo...lay-new-prices/

 

6853ec87a3e09e5f3ea8f1ca0d7d72172e5154ee

dd116b1f07e24214758c85558da5305185dd78ac

3d546cb3df7f3c53713cb0cb969dd0b9823ce5d4

 






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