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Co Reading And Mixture On Rebuilt Engine

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#1 zero_wlv

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 09:56 PM

Hi everyone,

 

A quick summary of the question before I go ahead and waffle on with the details:       if my CO level is 0.15% and the car bogs down badly at anything past 40mph,  is this likely to indicate that my mixture is too lean,  despite the fact that my spark plugs are already sooted up?

 

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This is a newly rebuilt engine that has so far done only 42 miles,  so I really wouldn't want to get the mixture wrong whilst the rings are still bedding in.

 

The spec is 998+0.60" with 12G940 large-valve head, MG-Metro-ish camshaft, HIF38 and Stage 1 intake+exhaust.    Needle unknown (chosen and supplied by engine builder).

As my old engine died of piston-ring failure (possibly hastened by my less-than-professional tuning abilities) I'd prefer to ask some advice rather than get it wrong.

 

I initially set up by checking ignition advance was at 10° as instructed by engine builder,   and by setting mixture as per the usual method in Haynes  (which in my opinion is nowhere near as straightforward as it sounds if you don't have a lifting pin).

 

The car had to be MOTed immediately.    The CO value came back at 0.15%  (HC 205ppm).

Surely this is a very low figure for an A-Series with no catalyst.    Great for passing MOTs but it does sound to me as though the mixture may be very much on the lean side.

Bearing in mind that the car bogs down badly at 40mph and pretty much refuses to go any faster  (I haven't pushed it past 2/3rds throttle for obvious reasons),  and struggles up hills.

Is this also an indication of a possibly lean mixture?

 

I would just do the obvious thing and richen the mixture slightly to see if this improves running,   but I've become confused by the fact that the spark plugs are already sooted up.    Is this an indication that the mixture is not actually lean,   or is it just because the 42 miles done so far have all been urban and at lowish speed  (as detailed below)?

 

(

So far the engine has covered the following mileage:

    - 30 mins bench test by engine builder

    - 1 mile to MOT centre and back

    - another 1 mile to MOT centre and back

    - 19 miles across town in heavy traffic

    - 21 miles across town in light traffic

)

 

Would it be reasonable to just try pulling the choke out at 40mph and see if it responds any better?

 

I've contacted a local rolling road who are happy to tune the car professionally (and tailor the needle if necessary) in January,   but they've told me to run for 500 miles first before I take it in.

As if you haven't guessed by now,  I'm slightly paranoid that if I've got the mixture wrong for the first 500 miles,  I'll get either borewash or valve seat damage.

My two local garages who work on Minis say that they don't touch anything to do with carb mixture as they say it's more trouble than it's worth for them to get involved.

 

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Additional question (much less important):     The engine needs a good 15/20 seconds or so of cranking before it catches and starts,  and it sounds as though its cranking quite slowly,  despite the battery being fine.   Is this normal,  and is it just because the engine is still tight?

 

 

 



#2 Mervyn

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 10:15 PM

Grab yourself a colourtune

Sounds like carb is set up badly to me

Merv

#3 cal844

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 10:42 PM

Get the engine to misbehave then pull the choke

You have filled the carb dashpot with suitable oil?
Try 20/50 engine oil(half a cap ISH)

You should get the fuelling set to 3.0%CO (MOT man can do that)

#4 slidehammer

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 11:35 PM

My initial impression is the engine is far too lean, causing the bogging down. The black plugs are no representation of mixture as they will go black quickly on star up with the choke out. Check the connections to the starter to make sure they are all good. The sluggish cold start could be another indication that the mixture is lean.



#5 zero_wlv

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 01:23 AM

Thanks for the suggestions everyone.   If the roads don't look too salty tomorrow I'll try richening the mixture a little and going for a decent run.



#6 blacktulip

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 10:08 AM

Where are you based?

#7 zero_wlv

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 10:31 AM

[post deleted]


Edited by zero_wlv, 27 August 2020 - 08:58 AM.


#8 carbon

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 08:30 PM

If you take the needle out of the carb you should be able to read the three letters which are stamped on it.

 

If the plugs are already looking sooty then you have a rich mixture despite lean at idle and possibly lean at 40mph. Rich is not good for running in and can also result in faster bore wear.

 

When you take the needle out also check carefully for signs of wear, if there is a ridge about 3-4mm down from the face of the piston then it is goosed.



#9 mini13

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 09:52 PM

Mixture at idle will have no bearing on the mixture while driving.

#10 KernowCooper

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 10:32 PM

If the mixture is set at 0.15% at idle then the mixture would be leaner through out the rev range so would effect the mixture while driving, if you drop the jet and set the mixture at 3% at idle and then try it on road. If its idles fine and then struggles to rev then as suggested above whip the needle out and we can advise the way to go.



#11 mini13

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 08:21 AM

th fuel used at idle is so little compared to off idle it is vertually insignificant.



#12 Midas Mk1

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 08:51 AM

WInsu is great for getting an initial needle before dyno, has worked for me in the past, and also highlighted the need for a different carb spring in my case, which made a difference on the rollers. :thumbsup:

 

Also remember to run the new rings in (I choose the hard method rather than gentle)



#13 KernowCooper

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 01:09 AM

th fuel used at idle is so little compared to off idle it is vertually insignificant.

If the mixture is weak i.e the jet is wound up no matter what the reading it will effect the mixture as the needle raises through the jet



#14 zero_wlv

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 02:01 PM

Thanks for the advice everyone.

 

I richened the mixture slightly by turning the screw 90º (it's a HIF38 so no nut).     Bearing in mind the original position gave a CO reading of 0.15%,  I can't see this being enough to make the mixture over-rich  (or at least not at idle).

 

After a couple of 10 mile runs the plugs are now looking a much healthier light grey colour,   and the engine's driving more responsively.

Needs almost full choke to start but runs without choke after 5 mins.

It still starts to bog down up hills,  especially long inclines,   but I'm hoping this will be fixed when the needle is reprofiled.

 

I'm hoping this is enough to confirm that it's not running too rich  (as in "bore wash" rich),   but if anyone recommends otherwise I'll ask the MOT centre how much they'll charge to re-measure the CO reading.

 

 

I've arranged to have it rolling-roaded in a few weeks' time once I've had chance to cover 500 miles.

My main aim is to be sure it's not over-rich during the next few weeks until I get it tuned properly!

I've seen ACDodd mention a couple of times that a very lean mixture won't harm a newly rebuilt engine as long as only part throttle is used.

 

 

 

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