12 replies to this topic

[pauldridge]

I know this is searching for the needle in a haystack, but I am going to through this out anyway.

 

Today while driving my usually bullet-proof JDM Mini (SPI), I noticed that with the key turned off, there was a regular clicking sound, almost certainly a relay turning on and off  (no, not the flasher or turn circuitry near as I can tell).  It is possible this began just after running the Mini through an automated car wash.. I hadn't noticed it prior.

 

Strangely, the relay only clicks with the ignition switch OFF, and goes away just as soon as I turn on the key.

 

I can't tell as yet if the sound is coming from under the dash board, or from engine firewall.  It sounds close when I am on either side.

 

I realize this is not much to go on until I do further investigation, but just wondering if anyone else has ever encountered a similar issue, and can share the solution?

[FlyingScot]

Are you saying that it does this all the time - just sitting? Or after running and then turning off?

Moved to injection section

FS

Edited by FlyingScot, 06 January 2018 - 01:03 PM.

[cian]

Are you sure its not the throttle stepper resettingitself?

[pauldridge]

Yes.. strange I know but with the ignition (key) off it immediately starts ticking and does so indefinitely. I feel like I certainly should be able to feel a relay pulsing if I can get my hands on it

It is very difficult to tell if the sound is coming from under the Bonnet or inside behind the dashboard

Tomorrow I will go to plan B and get out my stethoscope and as well will make sure the sound isn't coming from the stepper motor

It sounds like my next step will be to pull the dashboard out to check the relays there

Again as soon as I turned 80 ignition switch on even without starting the engine the relay ticking goes away

I have never encountered something like this before

[minimans]

Is there an echo in here???????????????????

[FlyingScot]

Is there an echo in here???????????????????

Fixed it...must be some kind of record...6 duplicate posts lol

FS

[whistler]

I installed an alarm system into my car and often I can here one of the sensor relays clicking without the ignition being on. maybe the same on yours.

[xrocketengineer]

Well, just for the hell of it, while the clicking is going on, unplug the the big connector from the alternator and see if it goes away. If the clicking goes away the alternator or the inline diode in the brown yellow wire is probably bad.

The reason I am saying this, is that we replaced an alternator with a rebuilt one on my nephew's Vitara. Immediately we started getting a continuous ticking noise with everything off from an EGR relay or valve. He did not want to remove the alternator again and he took the car to an electrician that said that the ECU needed replacement. I told him to remove the alternator and have it tested at the place he bought it from. They tested it and found it ok but replaced it with another one and problem solved.  

I do not know if in the mini the diode is in line or built in the alternator.  

Edited by xrocketengineer, 07 January 2018 - 03:08 PM.

[pauldridge]

Well, I pulled out the dash today.  The offending relay turned out to be the emergency/turn signal flasher, which makes sense, since it is the only one that likely might have any power with the key off.  soon as I unplugged it, the clicking stopped.  I replaced the flasher unit with a new one, but, not surprisingly, it exhibits the same characteristics.  Interestingly, both the turn signals and flashers work just fine once I turn on the ignition key.

 

I believe the issue may be in the emergency flasher switch, and not looking forward to trying to dig that bugger out.

 

it's back to the wiring diagrams to see what might be cause my issue.  

[pauldridge]

ISSUE RESOLVED
After studying the wiring diagram, I saw that emergency flashers and the directional indicators share a single flasher unit, but there is a power relay to the turn signals.  It seems the directional relay is in the engine compartment, on the firewall, while the emergency flasher relay is behind the dash panel.
 
The flasher unit receives constant battery power with/without ignition key on, just waiting for a ground signal from either the turn signal switch or emergency flasher switch.  The turn signal RELAY is powered only with key on.

 

My funky solution was to reroute the always-on power source to the flasher (fuse C4, wire purple/orange) and connect it instead to any switched power source.

 

I made use of an ATO piggyback fuse adapter, which allows plugging in a second,  separate fusible connection to an existing slot on the fuse panel  (available on Amazon):

 fuse adapter.JPG   21.23K   0 downloads 

 

I keep a supply of these babies in my electrical box, as they make circuit additions simple and tidy.

 

I would rather have found the true source of the problem, but sometimes you just have to punt and "get 'er done"

 

Of course, the only downside of this modification is that my emergency flashers will only function with the key on, but since I can't recall ever having a situation where I've needed to activate the emergencies, I can live with that.

Edited by pauldridge, 08 January 2018 - 04:55 PM.

[xrocketengineer]

It appears that you have a path to earth (not a short) on the light green/pink wire connecting the relay, flasher and hazard switch. Disconnect the connector on the flasher. With hazards off and indicators off, check for continuity to earth on the light green/pink wire. It should be infinity. If it is not, disconnect also the the relay connector and try again. If it reads infinity now, the relay has a problem providing the path to earth.

If it still is not reading infinity, then disconnect the hazard switch connector and try again. If it reads infinity now, the hazard switch has a problem providing the path to earth. If it is not, the wire itself is causing the problem.

Edited by xrocketengineer, 08 January 2018 - 04:59 PM.

[phillrulz]

Agreed with rocketengineer. Its up to you but your not fixing the problem your hiding the symptom. At some point the leakage could get bad enough to either make the lights unusable / cause a fire or blow a fuse.

 

Right got my head round it. 

 

Direction indicator relay 4 wires,

• Green - Supply from ignition ( you cant use indicators while ignition is off)
• Black - Earth
• Light green pink - Flasher signal 
• Light green brown - Flasher signal out to indicator switch ( stalk )

 

Direction indicator Hazard waning unit ( flasher) 3 wires

• Purple orange- supply from battery always live 
• Black - Earth 
• Light green pink - Flasher signal output 

 

Hazard warning switch  6 wires 

• Light green pink - Flasher signal
• Green and red - LH lights
• Green white - RH lights
• Light green green - Jumper for flasher signal to dashboard light
• Black - Earth for hazard dashboard light 

Some how the flasher signal The Light green and pink wire is making a circuit to ground. Which makes the direction indicator hazards warning unit pulse. 

 

Personally id get the meter out discount all 3 ends make sure they dont touch chassis and measure resistance between the cable and ground. If its Open loop then all good cable is fine. Has a resistance then the cable insulation has failed. 

 

Then plug it into the direction indicator relay, Measure again from the cable to ground. If its Open loop then all good, if its got a resistance then the relay is either buggers or possibly further down the line. 

 

Then plug the cable back into the Hazard warning switch. Measure from cable to ground. Open loop is good. resistance is bad. If you got open loop with the cable all times previously then the fault is with the switch. 

 

From the drawing there is a "Sealed Joint" in the cable i suspect this has water ingress and has failed. 

 

Im not familiar with SPI or japanese but from what i see from drawings as rocket said, The Light green and pink wire which connects the flasher to the direction relay and hazard switch has a ground leakage. 

 

 

Feel free to correct me anyone, Also looking at drawing anyone fancy explaining why they used an Op amp symbol inside the flasher and hazard switch? Cheers 

Edited by phillrulz, 08 January 2018 - 07:40 PM.

[pauldridge]

Thanks for all the valuable comments, and the last two make perfect sense.  I DID disconnect the flasher switch completely, that didn't stop the clicking.

 

After my "unadvisable" kludge fix by relocating the always-on power to the flasher to a keyed supply, and removing the always-on fuse C4, I then found that the memory save function of my radio was inop.  It dawned on me then that I had "conveniently" tapped into the flasher relay power for my radio memory, which I had then disabled with the recent "fix".  That's what happens when a non-engineer starts mucking about under the dash!

 

My radio memory is now fed from a dedicated constant power source right at the fusebox, and everything is functioning perfectly again, so I am going to chalk this up as a wrap this time, but with copious reference notes for when the next head-scratcher comes along.

 

As far as the question re: the Op Am symbol on the flasher unit, I wonder if this one of those electronic jobbies, designed to accommodate LED lights if desired?  In my troubleshooting phase, I DId replace the existing LUCAS flasher with an off the shelf electronic unit.. both functioned exactly the same. So I'll leave the new one in.