Jump to content


Photo

Abandoned Car - When Can I Get It?


  • Please log in to reply
30 replies to this topic

#16 Homersimpson

Homersimpson

    One Carb Or Two?

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 797 posts
  • Location: Redditch

Posted 14 January 2018 - 12:17 PM

 

I don't think, legally, the previous owner ever loses title. It wouldn't be theft if you, or the police etc, haven't deliberately deprived them of the car. Making reasonable efforts to find and ask them covers that. Difficulty proving "intent to permanently deprive" is why we have "taking without consent" as a separate offence - so a good idea to square it with DVSA/police first.

 

One common work around over the title is to have a counterclaim of equal value: "You're only in a position to ask for your car back because I've had it in safe keeping inside my garage. The cost of that safe keeping is at least equal to the value of your abandoned car, so I took the car as payment in your absence." I suppose, at a push, they could pay you in cash and take the car back. You'd be on a weaker footing if you didn't have to deal with the car, better to have the consent of whose land it's on so you can argue you were acting as their agent, paid in knackered Volvo.

So I could take a car, any car, lock it up in my garage and a year later tell the owner he owes me storage fees.

 

Possibly but only if you had a reason to move/remove the vehicle and possibly a contract with the owner (verbal or written) for storing it.

 

I think the local authority's and police have different rules but even a private landlord renting out a garage has some things they have to do before they can dispose of a vehicle.

 

I used to work at a garage where the landlord rented some small units to private individuals who were repairing or storing cars, one had an MG in it and after several months of them not paying or visiting the garage he emptied the unit and sold the car to one of our customers.  After a few weeks (presumably the new owner tried to get a V5) the original owner went to the police and the new owner had to give the car back and lost the work he had since put into it (fortunately not much but he had got it running and fitted some new bits).  The person who had bought it got their money back from the landlord but I seem to remember that the problem was the landlord hadn't waited long enough or given notice to the person renting, it was some technicality.

 

Its a mine field although I know its tempting when you look at abandoned vehicles, I have seen quite a few with local authority removal notices and thought what a shame I could do something with that.



#17 Ethel

Ethel

    ..is NOT a girl!

  • TMF Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 25,379 posts
  • Local Club: none

Posted 14 January 2018 - 12:18 PM

Yes....

 

Provided the circumstance was along the lines of the last sentence: it was obstructing someones "enjoyment" on their own property, giving them a valid reason to move it. If the owner couldn't be reasonably asked to remove it themself, they'd only owe a duty to mitigate their losses i.e. remove the nuisance at minimum cost. So turning it from a nuisance in to a useful vehicle or giving it away for free would be preferable to paying someone to remove it. 

 

If the original owner tips up a year later asking for their car back they can expect to pay reasonable storage costs because its not reasonable to expect someone to store your car for free, just because you never asked permission.

 

 

...... I don't think there's a prescribed notice period, unless you'd written one in to a rental contract. You'd have to balance the nuisance against what's reasonable in trying to get the owner to shift it. You could expect to be on a sticky wicket if you  made more from selling the car than you were owed in rent and your contract was perpetual - "I'll store your car for as long as I can get the rent". 



#18 Ben_O

Ben_O

    Mill Road Garage

  • Paint Doctor
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,781 posts
  • Location: Isle of Wight

Posted 14 January 2018 - 12:47 PM

I understand you wanting to save the car but I can't help but think that it could potentially be a whole load of grief and risk for an old abandoned hige mileage Volvo

Does it need much work?



#19 midridge2

midridge2

    Camshaft & Stage Two Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,794 posts
  • Location: north east england

Posted 14 January 2018 - 01:20 PM

If the car is in a supermarket car park as you say I would have thought the first person to contact would be the owner of the land, the landlord could have given the car owner permission to park it there. 
To enter some ones land and remove a car is taking a vehicle without the owners permission.



#20 midridge2

midridge2

    Camshaft & Stage Two Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,794 posts
  • Location: north east england

Posted 14 January 2018 - 01:22 PM

Yes....

 

Provided the circumstance was along the lines of the last sentence: it was obstructing someones "enjoyment" on their own property, giving them a valid reason to move it. If the owner couldn't be reasonably asked to remove it themself, they'd only owe a duty to mitigate their losses i.e. remove the nuisance at minimum cost. So turning it from a nuisance in to a useful vehicle or giving it away for free would be preferable to paying someone to remove it. 

 

If the original owner tips up a year later asking for their car back they can expect to pay reasonable storage costs because its not reasonable to expect someone to store your car for free, just because you never asked permission.

 

 

...... I don't think there's a prescribed notice period, unless you'd written one in to a rental contract. You'd have to balance the nuisance against what's reasonable in trying to get the owner to shift it. You could expect to be on a sticky wicket if you  made more from selling the car than you were owed in rent and your contract was perpetual - "I'll store your car for as long as I can get the rent". 

 

You are adding your own thought to the original posting, were does it say it is obstructing the landowners enjoyment of their land?



#21 Ethel

Ethel

    ..is NOT a girl!

  • TMF Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 25,379 posts
  • Local Club: none

Posted 14 January 2018 - 01:30 PM

I'm talking in general terms, but since it appears to be stopping other potential customers from parking at the supermarket and could be considered an eyesore etc: I'd say it qualifies. Of course that's down to the supermarket, if it's their land.



#22 midridge2

midridge2

    Camshaft & Stage Two Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,794 posts
  • Location: north east england

Posted 14 January 2018 - 01:54 PM

I'm talking in general terms, but since it appears to be stopping other potential customers from parking at the supermarket and could be considered an eyesore etc: I'd say it qualifies. Of course that's down to the supermarket, if it's their land.

Were does it say it appears to be stopping other potential customers from parking,? you don't know the size of the carpark.



#23 Shifty

Shifty

    Sponsored by Fosters (tm)

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,128 posts
  • Name: Sean
  • Location: Shropshire(sunny)
  • Local Club: TMF

Posted 14 January 2018 - 02:00 PM

Seems an awful lot of effort for an old Volvo to me, as said you could end up spending on it and then have the original owner try and reclaim his property.

 

I wouldn't bother.



#24 Ethel

Ethel

    ..is NOT a girl!

  • TMF Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 25,379 posts
  • Local Club: none

Posted 14 January 2018 - 02:23 PM

I'm assuming it's provided for customer parking, I'm pretty sure they won't have added an extra allowance of parking spaces for abandoned cars. It's their carpark, so not really for anyone else to say, including me, or the Volvo owner.



#25 midridge2

midridge2

    Camshaft & Stage Two Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,794 posts
  • Location: north east england

Posted 14 January 2018 - 02:34 PM

https://www.gov.uk/g...esponsibilities



#26 r3k1355

r3k1355

    Super Mini Mad

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 585 posts
  • Local Club: East Anglia

Posted 15 January 2018 - 11:06 AM

Sometimes the law in this country is totally backwards.

 

Check with the police if it has been reported stolen, and then let them know of your intention. Request info from DVLA of previous owner with the reasons as to why https://www.gov.uk/r...tion-from-dvla, Apply for V5C with a V62 and then play the waiting game.

 

 

Usually the DVLA contact the registered keeper themselves, they don't let you do it.

If they don't get a response from the keeper you can apply for the logbook.

 

The DVLA have clamped down on what info they give out to people recently, I'm not sure they'd give out someones name and address in this case.

 

 

 

Having played this game myself I can tell you how it works in reality.

 

The council will refuse responsibility, they will pass the buck to the DVLA to sort it out as an un-taxed car.

The DVLA will refuse responsibility, they will pass the buck to the council to sort it out as it's an abandoned car.

 

Rinse, repeat,  it can literally take close to a year because no-one wants to go to the trouble of organising the removal and disposal of a car.


Edited by r3k1355, 15 January 2018 - 11:06 AM.


#27 Steve220

Steve220

    Up Into Fourth

  • TMF+ Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,877 posts
  • Location: Shropshire
  • Local Club: RAF Mini Club

Posted 15 January 2018 - 11:14 AM

Sometimes the law in this country is totally backwards.
 
Check with the police if it has been reported stolen, and then let them know of your intention. Request info from DVLA of previous owner with the reasons as to why https://www.gov.uk/r...tion-from-dvla, Apply for V5C with a V62 and then play the waiting game.

 
 
Usually the DVLA contact the registered keeper themselves, they don't let you do it.
If they don't get a response from the keeper you can apply for the logbook.
 
The DVLA have clamped down on what info they give out to people recently, I'm not sure they'd give out someones name and address in this case.


I never mentioned you'd have to contact the original owner. The link i've put on mentions what they'll do. I've done this recently with a mate and he now owns the car.

Edited by Steve220, 15 January 2018 - 11:15 AM.


#28 M J W J

M J W J

    One Carb Or Two?

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 976 posts
  • Location: Midlands
  • Local Club: not yet

Posted 16 January 2018 - 07:07 AM

I wouldn't consider a vehicle that has sat since last May to be abandoned to be honest especially if it's in a supermarket car park.

I've left cars sitting on the end of my property, some distance from the actual house, for longer than that and every so often would get someone enquire about the car. Usually it was the local banger racing lads.

Considering it's in a supermarket car park I would imagine that if it had been abandoned then the supermarket would have had it removed sooner than that. My dad was contacted by Sommerfields after leaving a car in their car park for 4 days and Tesco fined my mum after only 3 hours.

I'd talk to the supermarket first. They probably know who's it is if it's sat that long.

#29 DomCr250

DomCr250

    Super Mini Mad

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 667 posts
  • Location: Berkshire
  • Local Club: 16V mini club

Posted 16 January 2018 - 10:18 AM

The reason I'm less likely to go for it is I really can't be bothered sourcing a new key or changing all the locks if I can't contact the legal owner (who I am working on locating as well), and the mileage is reportedly pretty high (not too far off 300K). 

 

 

The keys are that not too much of an issue - I went down to my local general auction in Reading, loads of very cheap cars all repossessed by bailiffs, all with no keys.  A company was offering a service to cut a key and transponder from the chassis number, it was quick and affordable.

 

You would still need to contact the owner to get permission to take the car.



#30 Pistonbroke66

Pistonbroke66

    Stage One Kit Fitted

  • Noobies
  • PipPipPip
  • 89 posts
  • Location: Lancashire

Posted 16 January 2018 - 11:01 AM

Maybe its just me but this seems an awful lot of trouble for an old volvo....?? O_O






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users