99 replies to this topic

[Cooperman]

That type of spacer is just so dangerous! The RAC MSA banned them from competition a long time ago.

Stendard wheels with standard hubs/drume is the best way to go with ride height also standard, although with 13" wheels it can be an advantage to raise the ride height a little to give a bit more suspension compliance and replace the suspension capability lost with the 50% profile tyres.

[Ethel]

You'd be on the same springs, but you will be farther from the bump stops.

 

Probably some inconsequential and overly techie bumbling (Anorak, look away now  ) - What effect will the relative articulation of the suspension geometry have on spring rate, if any? I suppose the cone is always the same horizontal (i.e. perpendicular to the load) distance from the upper arm fulcrum so is directly opposing the reaction to your Min's weight on the ball joint. So both on the same lever giving the same angular displacement and force vectoring ???

 

Anyways - If you have a skinnier profile you really need longer springs of a lower rate to get back some of the compliance of full fat tyres. Old cones hurt more & standard ones over red dots etc...

[Ethel]

back on topic....

 

I'd think about replacing the studs, especially if the extensions weren't remotely tight, they  could easily be fatigued.

 

Don't take too much interest in where the wheels sit relative to the arches. The fit of arches is much more ad hoc and it's the arches that should be fitted to the wheels, if you get my drift.

[1984mini25]

I haven’t seen a set of those spacers for about 20 years thank the lord. They were a terrible idea back in the ‘80’s & ‘90’s when they were often the first cheap and easy way of making any spotty yoofs first four wheeled disaster zone ‘cool’. Caused many a first trip into a ditch as one wheel departed the car when half way round a corner ..........

 

Minispares seam happy to sell you pair... http://www.minispare...acers.aspx|Back to shop

[Cooperman]

After all these years they should know better!

[hhhh]

You'd be on the same springs, but you will be farther from the bump stops.

 

Probably some inconsequential and overly techie bumbling (Anorak, look away now  ) - What effect will the relative articulation of the suspension geometry have on spring rate, if any? I suppose the cone is always the same horizontal (i.e. perpendicular to the load) distance from the upper arm fulcrum so is directly opposing the reaction to your Min's weight on the ball joint. So both on the same lever giving the same angular displacement and force vectoring ???

 

Anyways - If you have a skinnier profile you really need longer springs of a lower rate to get back some of the compliance of full fat tyres. Old cones hurt more & standard ones over red dots etc...

With the spacers installed, the cones will have been more compressed than they would've been without them. However, removing the spacers will likely allow some spring back with the lower leverage so the ride height will increase somewhat, but the damage done may be more than tolerable, and the ride height probably won't be what it was before the spacers were first installed.

[Ethel]

Not quite the point I had in mind, but something else to think about (if you're a compulsive nerd too). The force still has to go through the swivelly top arm ball joint, so it's fair to consider that as the point of load on the lever that is the top wishbone. Though it is tied by the bottom arm so some extra load (tension) could be put on that, though any vertical component counteracting gravity will go straight into the subby and bypass yer cones. Do the big annular bags of air we call tyres equalise such things anyway?

[hhhh]

All the load of gravity and road shock is borne by the cone, and the leverage is determined by the total lever length which includes the extension provided by the wheel spacers. Adding a wheel spacer has a similar affect to moving the knuckle closer to the fulcrum. The tire has a center of force which is moved outboard by spacers just as though it were a razor thin disk. The tire just makes it harder to calculate the actual length. 

 

It just occurred to me why the ratio described by Vizard and others as being about 3:1 is not right because the extra extension beyond the ball joint was not taken into account it seems. The rear is much easier to calculate because the lever is sideways as a radius arm.

Edited by hhhh, 22 January 2018 - 03:36 PM.

[Cooperman]

It might be worth checking the swivel hub ball joints and considering a set of Hi-Lo's to accurately set the ride height. That would be a good investment at this time.

[M700FGT]

Mini Mad - We are ordering the knuckles and cones this evening - seems to be the way forward and everyone one is confirming the same thing. I wasn't really expecting the shocks to deal with the ride height, but i know they are also shot.

 

Thanks THE ANORAK, i really wasn't sure if they were meant be "over-arched". Most Google images show the wheels right to the edge of the arches, but I'm guessing these are probably modded. 

 

Steve220 - Ive used Hammerite  in the past and got a great finish. My friend has a 6.2 Chevvy Monster Truck and always paint his engine bay parts in Hammerite. God knows what heat that things kicking out. Im really not sure what pain they used on my Mini Callipers and drums, might as well have used water colours based on the paint condition. They also painted the engine block in the same blue paint- most of that has bubbled and looks terrible. 

 

As for the garage taking the spacers off, to be fair to them i originally took him in there for a water pump leak, Clutch and pedal issue. Also a MOT / health check. He did mention the spacers but was more concerned with getting the other bits done first. I wanted the Mini back here for security while we wait for the parts to arrive, so he was going to have a look when it went back. I just cant resist a good tinker and wanted to see how bad they were. Never expect too find those bricks behind the wheels. 

 

 

So an exciting choice to be made....... Wheels!!! 

 

Mini Sport have been good with me and their prices seem reasonable. I know im going for the Yokohama A539 tyres - driven on these before, and although they are soft, the grip is amazing at any speed. The choice to make is the wheels and i could do you some assistance. I would prefer to keep 13" wheels, but do i go for 6" x 13" or 7" x 13" and what would i need to do to fit 7" wide wheels? Im quite keen on the ultralite deep dish 7" x 13", but any problems or advice? 

 

Thanks again for all the amazing help! 

[1984mini25]

Regarding the knuckles, don't bother with the minispares, minisport or other offerings, well not unless you enjoy having to replace them every 3 months because of the rubbers that disintegrate. Instead get hold of some Delphi ones, part no. TC30.

 

And Hammerite is fine for engines and brakes. If the engine is getting hot enough to burn the paint off, the paint would be the last of your worries. But just like any painting, you need to prep, remove any rust and degrease before painting.

[M700FGT]

Regarding the knuckles, don't bother with the minispares, minisport or other offerings, well not unless you enjoy having to replace them every 3 months because of the rubbers that disintegrate. Instead get hold of some Delphi ones, part no. TC30.

 

And Hammerite is fine for engines and brakes. If the engine is getting hot enough to burn the paint off, the paint would be the last of your worries. But just like any painting, you need to prep, remove any rust and degrease before painting.

Thanks 19844mini25 - I didn't realise i had options with the knuckles. Ive just found the Delphi ones online. Looks like they are sold as left and right - I've included the links below. 

 

https://www.ebay.co....CYAAOSwCkZZOTcH

 

https://www.ebay.co....PsAAOSw1BlZOTcL

 

 

With regards to the cones, i was planning on going for the standard MiniSport version - https://www.minispor...nsion-cone.html

 

Is it worth getting the knuckle joint nylon cup end - https://www.minispor...n-cup-each.html

 

 

As for the paint, looks like no prep to me! 

[GraemeC]

The nylon cup comes as part of the joint.
Don't know why they've listed the joints like that on eBay, there is no difference left to right.
There is however a difference in the knuckle joint for the later Minis as they had a deeper shoulder to lift the suspension slightly, see:
http://www.minispare...|Back to search

Obviously if you fit Hilos then you can adjust the suspension that way instead.

[M700FGT]

The nylon cup comes as part of the joint.
Don't know why they've listed the joints like that on eBay, there is no difference left to right.
There is however a difference in the knuckle joint for the later Minis as they had a deeper shoulder to lift the suspension slightly, see:
http://www.minispare...|Back to search

Obviously if you fit Hilos then you can adjust the suspension that way instead.

 

The Ebay ones say they fit all models, and the MiniSport ones seem the same with no mention of year. Its only Mini Spares who mention the year.

 

The Mini Spares ones are also £24.77 each, where as the Mini Sport ones are £3.78 each: https://www.minispor...ckle-joint.html

 

Mini Sport do have an just version with a thicker shaft, but its not a direct replacement: https://www.minispor...ckle-joint.html

 

At the moment, all im looking to do is get the suspension, ride height and camber back to where it should be. 

[1984mini25]

The Delphi ones will be fine, and the miniport ones with the thicker shaft are for there own brand high-lows.

 

http://www.theminifo...urs-last/page-2

Edited by 1984mini25, 22 January 2018 - 08:59 PM.