21 replies to this topic

[panky]

Picked up on another forum.

 It definitely seems they want to put us all in new cars and autonomous vehicles to help big business. If they are coming for the modifieds, it won't be long before the rest of the classic movement is affected too. The Kit car industry is suddenly interested as this move will kill their industry. Please respond to the consultation now. however, to call it a consultation is a misnomer as they aren't following their own rules due to timescale for response - 2nd March. This is a UK government thing, not EU led.

 

Section 4.10 of interest to kit car builders.

 

https://www.gov.uk/g...-and-safety.pdf

 

[Archived1]

Scaremongering from people who dont understand whats happening Id imagine.

Kit cars and reconstructed classic cars undergoing IVA will not be required to meet WLTP, given that at present they are not required to meet NEDC or the latest EU standards. Instead they are tested to age-appropriate MOT standards, on the basis of the date of manufacture or first use of the engine.

So thats modified and kit cars covered then.

The papers relate to manufacturers and low scale production/import. Not the individual.

Kit cars are built by the individual. Not the manufacturer unless you order a turn key option. The manufacturers will not have to make any changes to kits supplied.
Manufacturers of turn key cars even in low volume will have to meet emissions laws. Not a bad thing imo by thats only where the car is registered as new. If the car has been modified/built from a donor then the age appropriate emissions are still applied.

Very little has changed other than making sure cheat devices cannot be fitted by manufacturers... large or small. Theyve included Iva etc to close loop holes off for low scale manufacturers.

Nothing to be too concerned about. The classic cars we use cannot have emissions laws changed after the effect..thats not how law works.

Edited by Elf is a mini, 12 February 2018 - 09:56 AM.

[Ethel]

Kit cars

 

4.10  Kit cars and reconstructed classic cars undergoing IVA will not be required to meet WLTP, given that at present they are not required to meet NEDC or the latest EU standards. Instead they are tested to age-appropriate MOT standards, on the basis of the date of manufacture or first use of the engine.

4.11  We are proposing that for kit cars, compliance with the MOT emissions standards current at the date of registration will be required, despite the use of an older engine. In other words the current relaxation for emissions according to the age of the engine will no longer apply.

4.12  Reconstructed (restored) classic cars undergoing IVA will not be required to meet the latest MOT standards, as long as the appearance of the vehicle is broadly unchanged and the engine is of the same capacity as that supplied with the vehicle when it was new.

4.13  When new vehicles were first required to be fitted with catalytic converters around 1992 (Euro 1 emissions standard), kit car makers typically used older engines which were not fitted with catalytic converters, hence the justification for age-appropriate testing of emissions based on date of engine manufacture or first use. The majority of the fleet is now vehicles up to 25 years old whose engines are fitted with catalytic converters, providing plenty of choice to the kit car builder.

[Archived1]

Only where the vehicle is new. If a donor is used then you have to have so many points etc from the original.

Kit cars registered as new will have to meet emissions laws no matter what engine is fitted. This is to stop low scale manufacturers avoiding the law.

If you get a Q plate as ate couldn’t be verified or you get an age related plate to the donor etc then it’s still based on the age or engine type.

I think if you build a brand new car it should meet brand new car emissions standards. This won’t effect the every day end user of kit cars using a donor vehicle or a sum of used parts ending on a Q reg.

This set or rules is applied to manufacturers and low scale production/import. Too many people are reading too far into this.

[Ethel]

It reads like it will affect some kitcar builders.

 

What's a reconstructed classic car? Sounds suspiciously like a kitcar to me.

 

4.11 makes me wonder if your already registered Mini might get caught up in this if you replace your engine with an older one or rebore. Even for an IVA build it seems unfair if you'll be stopped from reboring as was a standard manufacturer's repair procedure: +20thou etc.

[Archived1]

If a donor car was a 1986 then that’s the first registration used. So 1986 emissions will be applied even if you use a 1940 engine.

If you build a car as NEW then you have to provide all proof of receipts etc etc and you’re allowed one major reconditioned item (usually taken as the engine).
The new section will stop brand new cars using older engines to circumvent emissions responsibilities.

[Archived1]

Reconstructed classics will not be effected unless registered as new. Stops Jaguar etc building these multi million pound brand new E types without sorting emissions.

A reconstructed classic is where it’s a car built as a “reconstruction” or clone (Not an original vehicle) and in these terms built from new parts etc.

[Ethel]

..if your donor has a V5 issued in 1986, but that won't help you if your kitcar body/chassis  has never had a V5 - you'll have to meet today's emissions standards - unless you're pretending it's an E Type, DB5 etc.

[Archived1]

It’s all about “first use” as in section 4.13

If a car is a reconstructed vehicle and presented as new then it’s never had a first use. So new standards should apply no matter the age of the engine.

Too many reconstructed classic cars are hitting the road. E types etc etc

[Ethel]

Reconstructed classics will not be effected unless registered as new. Stops Jaguar etc building these multi million pound brand new E types without sorting emissions.

A reconstructed classic is where it’s a car built as a “reconstruction” or clone (Not an original vehicle) and in these terms built from new parts etc.

The price of Ebay V5's will be going up.

[Archived1]

..if your donor has a V5 issued in 1986, but that won't help you if your kitcar body/chassis  has never had a V5 - you'll have to meet today's emissions standards - unless you're pretending it's an E Type, DB5 etc.

Not so unles you’re trying to register it as a brand new vehicle and you’re a manufacturer even of low scale.

If you can show you started with a donor (pictures and v5) then you’ll be ok. A Q reg is applied in this instance anyway as you’ve lost the original chassis and you’ve used old parts.

If however you use all brand new parts then it’s not really a 1986 is it? So you’ve manufactured a vehicle in essence. You’ll then need to meet the emissions laws.

[Archived1]

Reconstructed classics will not be effected unless registered as new. Stops Jaguar etc building these multi million pound brand new E types without sorting emissions.
A reconstructed classic is where it’s a car built as a “reconstruction” or clone (Not an original vehicle) and in these terms built from new parts etc.

The price of Ebay V5's will be going up.

Unfortunately I think you’re very right. This could be where original E types etc are scrapped and identities applied to new reconstructed vehicles become the norm. Sad

[nicklouse]

 

 

Reconstructed classics will not be effected unless registered as new. Stops Jaguar etc building these multi million pound brand new E types without sorting emissions.
A reconstructed classic is where it’s a car built as a “reconstruction” or clone (Not an original vehicle) and in these terms built from new parts etc.

The price of Ebay V5's will be going up.

Unfortunately I think you’re very right. This could be where original E types etc are scrapped and identities applied to new reconstructed vehicles become the norm. Sad

 

so just like the remaster Mini thing.

[Ethel]

Already happening closer to home with the David Brown Mini, aren't Aston Martin also at it?

 

For most kitcars there aren't enough points left to retain the Donor ID, too many are taken by the body. You could get an age related plate if you have a single, age verified, donor - but that's a new vehicle with a new registration number, not the one from the donor.

[Archived1]

I will say these are still proposals etc too. Not current law and things can and often do change.

Often they go in hard knowing things will get watered down and end up roughly where they actually wanted to be. A proposal will encapsulate the idea as a whole... the full terms and conditions will then have to be ironed out and consultations take place.

If you want a voice then make sure you use it during any consultation periods provided. Sadly ACE has gone so we’re all going to have to fight the gradual chipping away of our rights to use our cars as we see fit.

Use it or lose it