68 replies to this topic

[Cooperman]

Our economy is one of the strongest in Europe and our unemployment level is almost certainly the lowest.

Considerable inwards investment has been happening for several years.

Our economic growth is excellent and has defied the pre-Brexit referendum projections. The pound is still in the right place compared to the Dollar. A lower exchange rate to the Euro will enhance our exports post-Brexit and make it more difficult for European countries to sell to us (is that what the EU actually wants?).

We have a low-tax economy which many other countries would love to have.

I can remember when we had a Labour Gov't in the 60's & 70's. Basic income tax was 33% and corporation tax encouraged foreign companies to invest elsewhere. Investment in UK industry was in organisations like British Leyland who never made a profit - well, they didn't need to as we all funded them from our high tax rates. Unemployment increased and this country became the poor man of Europe. 

Brexit does not frighten me, but what does is a possible neo-Marxist Labour Government led by Corbyn and his fellow-travellers. He might well make us all more equal - all more equally poorer, more taxed and more personally regulated. 

 

[Mito]

The bank of England cut interest rates to .25% immediately after the referendum in the hopes it would stop the economy going south. This may have had limited effect or a great effect on the amount the economy has grown and possibly stopped a recession. Did the pre-brexit predictions take this change by the bank of England into account?

The claim is that the economy is growing so everything is fine and when measured purely in terms of GDP, this is quite correct. However, when you look at inflation and wage growth, then the picture becomes a bit gloomier. Inflation has outpaced wage growth for some time and that means, that for the majority, the economy isn't doing so great as they are still getting poorer whilst being told that the economy is doing well. This is what needs to be resolved and I don't think the government spending t prop up zombie companies like in the 70's is the way to go and I don't think even corbyn is proposing this.

It has been well proven that spending on infrastructure and education delivers real return on investment provided that it is spent on the right projects. The north can't even get investment in electrified rail and road improvements, leading to long travel delays and loss of productivity. If these exports people keep talking about are permanently stuck in traffic we're going to have great difficulty increasing our level of exports.

Edited by Mito, 22 February 2018 - 07:31 AM.

[CityEPete]

Ignoring the economic side of Brexit I was never going to vote leave anyway, immigration was the biggest factor by far and I'm happy how it is, "overcrowded country bursting at the seams" and all that, our home grown lazy beggars have nothing to do with migrant workers.

[DomCr250]

Was immigration the biggest factor? I don't think it was, that's just a myth used against the leave camp by the remainers, we did not win so all who voted to leave are anti immigration.

As a nation I believe our greatest asset is immigration, from across the globe. It's brought us skills and diversity, plus a cultural balance that's the envy of the majority of other countries.

Leave was about taking back decision making from unelected Eurocrats, who have always been envious of the UK's success globally.

[Icey]

Leave was about taking back decision making from unelected Eurocrats, who have always been envious of the UK's success globally.

 

The figurehead for the Leave campaign (Farage) was a 'Eurocrat', he was an MEP - an elected member of the European Parlament. Can you name the non-elected ones so I can look up what they do and their impact on British laws?

 

If you're referring to the Commission then nothing they do passes without the elected representatives (MEPs) vote. Additionally the members of the Commission are put forward by our own elected representatives (MPs in the UK).

 

Democracy is not the issue here, it can't be when only 35% bothered to vote in the last EU elections.

[DomCr250]

Democracy is not the issue here, it can't be when only 35% bothered to vote in the last EU elections.[/quote]

I think you have hit the nail on the head there, only 35% of the UK's population views the EU as worthwhile, or has any meaning to us in the UK?

[CityEPete]

The whole "taking back control" and "I'm not racist but" thing was a huge part of it, for many leave voters I know personally (unfortunately) immigration was their main priority, in fact like most voters myself included they didn't know much about the economic side of things.

[Icey]

I think you have hit the nail on the head there, only 35% of the UK's population views the EU as worthwhile, or has any meaning to us in the UK?

And there's the crux of it. The alternative view is that only 35% of the population see any need to change anything. It's a matter of conjecture as to which view is correct.

What I suspect is likely true of both this stat and the same for those that didn't take part in the Brexit vote is that they simply don't understand what they would be voting for. And for Brexit, that view supports the idea of a final vote when we actually have clear sight of what the end game is.

 

The whole "taking back control" and "I'm not racist but" thing was a huge part of it, for many leave voters I know personally (unfortunately) immigration was their main priority, in fact like most voters myself included they didn't know much about the economic side of things.

You've only got to watch a Question Time to see that for many, immigration was a massive part of the decision.

Edited by Icey, 22 February 2018 - 02:15 PM.

[CityEPete]

But that's on the BBC, biased, lol.

[Archived1]

Voting brexit to control immigration is odd in my view. More people now come to the UK then leave from OUTSIDE the EU.

Only got to visit London to see whole areas that are prodominantly immigrants and not from the EU... not just London either as it’s everywhere.

Me personally.. I don’t care if you’re green, blue or you come from the moon! just be British and respect our values and culture when you get here.

We are all immigrants to this island... bigoted or racist views on immigration were ‘sexed’ up by the right wing media. Shameful

[Icey]

Voting brexit to control immigration is odd in my view. More people now come to the UK then leave from OUTSIDE the EU.

 
Which is 100% controllable by our government with no EU involvement. And yet they don't change anything, why is that? The obvious answer as has been borne out by the economic stats is that immigration is a net positive.
 
So if it's not economics which is driving people to want an end to freedom of movement, what is it? Before answering, if your answer contains 'British Culture', you have to define what that means - no nebulous, wavy handed nonsense from times of old (I know Cooperman loves a good yarn about yesteryear) an actual description of what it means to be British and why a European (or any other race) doesn't fit.

the right wing media. Shameful

I ask again - who do we trust? We've already ruled out the BBC, who else should I add to the list?

Edited by Icey, 22 February 2018 - 03:35 PM.

[Archived1]

Im not dictating to anyone who we should trust or what it takes to be British.
Ive never said non EU cannot be British. Isnt sadiq khan British and from immigrant background?

Im not offended by immigrant workers etc. Im more often offended by the views of the British towards these people.

Britain has culture and values that are often very different from say China or Afghanistan. Im not going to list everything that in my opinion makes a person British as Im not here to push and agenda or marginalise any minorities.

I dont like people murdering in Allahs name or misrepresenting the Quran which is actually a masterpiece in peace and tolerance.

Im not a person who enjoys right wing propaganda. Im also not a pacifist who thinks the UK should drop our Nuclear deterrent.
Just a British person with tolerant British values towards those less fortunate than us including immigrants and the disabled/vulnerable.

Edited by Elf is a mini, 22 February 2018 - 04:07 PM.

[Icey]

I dont like people murdering in Allahs name or misrepresenting the Quran which is actually a masterpiece in peace and tolerance.

But they're not European, so why would leaving the EU affect that?

 

So if I can take anything from your replies it's that we need to preserve British values even though we don't know what they are, we can't trust the media but we don't know which parts and the people we need to keep out aren't from Europe.

 

Can you see why it's difficult to buy into that line of thought?

[Archived1]

I dont like people murdering in Allahs name or misrepresenting the Quran which is actually a masterpiece in peace and tolerance.

But they're not European, so why would leaving the EU affect that?
 
So if I can take anything from your replies it's that we need to preserve British values even though we don't know what they are, we can't trust the media but we don't know which parts and the people we need to keep out aren't from Europe.
 
Can you see why it's difficult to buy into that line of thought?

Youre reading too much into things and yet not understanding me.

I didnt vote out... I dont think voting out would change general migration. My point was that voting out purely on immigration seemed odd to me as more now come from outside the EU and remain/settle here.

I never voted to leave so you cant twist my words about maintaining British values. My point is that I dont care who you are, what colour you are but if you come here dont tell me I cant call a Christmas tree a Christmas tree! Its merry Christmas and not happy festivities.

No one has ever said we need to keep anyone out? I voted in lmao

Edited by Elf is a mini, 22 February 2018 - 05:02 PM.

[Icey]

No one has ever said we need to keep anyone out? I voted in you moron lmao

Perfect, it makes the point of why this is such a toxic subject - people didn't vote on anything tangible. It wasn't the EU that said you can't use the 'Christmas' name for things (probably your local council) but it gets caught up in the discussion and from there it takes no effort to turn it into 'us vs them' where we all lose.

 

(I didn't actually call out which way I thought you voted, just picked at your points    )

Edited by Icey, 22 February 2018 - 04:57 PM.